Lighting Trains

[JR 500系]

Any pic of the lighting unit itself, JR500 san?

 

Sure~ Please see attached pictures. Much alike to the original Tomix or the illumi or TORM, just that the light tube is much different and it defuses the light evenly.

 

 

Where can you get them?

 

Jeff

 

The pictures might be a good clue ~  :P

 

 

Went ahead to fix in the lights into the 485 salon trains Yamanami & Seseragi. Looking good now! Also used the remaining 6 tubes into the Tomix E233-8000 Nambu line, and complete it with all it's attachments and decals. E233s look nice!  :)

[cteno4]

Interesting block of plex to diffuse the light. I assume you strip off the brown cover? Just a little unit at the end then for led, resistor and rectifier bridge and the spring contacts! Very simple and seems to evenly disperse the light very well!

 

Sorry don't see the clue!

 

Jeff

 

Btw I've tried to source various springs from the tiny ones for pickups up to ones like these for light boards and had rotten luck. Either in small quantiles pretty expensive (actually buying replacement tomix pickups is the cheapest) or have to be ordered in huge bulk! Usually you can find some source of intermediate priced/size orders, but little luck with springs! Any ideas anyone?

[kvp]

 

Sorry don't see the clue!

The manufacturer's name or some other text is written on the boards, but the resolution isn't enough to clearly see them.

 

What i do see is that the block seems to be cnc machined both around the circuit and along the whole length for the small diffusor holes. This seems to be a new idea.

[cteno4]

Yeah the diffuser holes are oriented up to bounce off the roof and further diffuse the light. Interesting the pattern is even all the way along, I thought perhaps closer together as you go down the plank might even out the light more, but it seems pretty even in the side on e5 picture.

 

So jr are you going to let the cat out of the bag on the manufacturer, source, and price?!

 

Jeff

[HantuBlauLOL]

IMHO torm was better at light distribution..

[JR 500系]

Yeah the diffuser holes are oriented up to bounce off the roof and further diffuse the light. Interesting the pattern is even all the way along, I thought perhaps closer together as you go down the plank might even out the light more, but it seems pretty even in the side on e5 picture.

 

So jr are you going to let the cat out of the bag on the manufacturer, source, and price?!

 

Jeff

 

Actually it is pretty even, but I missed out on placing the aluminium foil (included) on the underside of the carriage body so that more light bounces off the body into the car itself. I think the trick is in its light tube, seems something good about it. He told me he will be experimenting on a new light tube source he got and should even out the light even further. I'm looking to place even more orders with him so that I may light up all my trains eventually.

 

It's from a China source, around the same as the mysterious tissue-wrapped MA trains. Quite reliable and I like the overall effect, and costs something like only US$3-3.50 per tube including shipping, as compared to TORM's US$4.60 before shipping; adds up when I light many trains.  

 

 

IMHO torm was better at light distribution..

 

I do agree to a certain extent as TORM has that 2 light bulbs at the rear ends that seriously light up the back portion which this light tube still fails too, but the TORM is still too bright as compared to this light tube that has a slightly more subtle feel to it and looks more realistic as interior lights...

[cteno4]

So is this someone we can place orders from?

 

Jeff

[katoftw]

Another secret seller. lol

[kvp]

It's more or less understandable if someone wants to keep their sources secret, otherwise everyone would have the same cool things. It's the same as with closed and open source. Not everyone wants to share knowledge, but keeping a good find secret is also rather hard for many people.

 

ps: There is a seller at my local used train market who sells unpackaged german prototype signals at half the normal price. It turns out they are qc rejects from the local factory that shomehow fly over the fence. The same is true for a lego shop in a big shopping center who sold unpainted lego animals and figures, which were never issued. Besides seeing eye and mouthless figures is a bit disturbing, they were never meant to leave the factory, but got to the shop in rather large quantities. Both sellers refused to tell the source of these items, but said that they can get more.

Edited June 16, 2015 by kvp

[JR 500系]

So is this someone we can place orders from?

 

Jeff

 

That's a problem... More on that later...

 

 

It's more or less understandable if someone wants to keep their sources secret, otherwise everyone would have the same cool things. It's the same as with closed and open source. Not everyone wants to share knowledge, but keeping a good find secret is also rather hard for many people.

 

 

Not exactly kvp san... Well I didn't want to keep things a secret just so I could have the coolest or the cheapest stuff. Just that there is a problem with this hence I couldn't exactly be very open about it. However, all in the spirit of sharing so i'll try to share some light on this here.

 

The source is from a China Website, called Taobao. I'm sure most Asians here would know about this but not sure about the rest of the world though. They sell secretly amazing stuff especially like MA and Tomytec since they are made in China. There also seems to be a market there for N scale trains since there are clubs in Hong Kong and Taiwan.

 

Taobao can be used in Singapore through a free proxy, although they cannot ship directly to you. It works much like Yahoo Auctions, just zero commissions and only assist you in ordering from Mainland China and consolidate your orders. Once you're ready, you can then consolidate your various packages from different sellers and ship them to your location, paying a small packing fee and the shipping fee.

 

You need Chinese to read the site, so here goes: http://sea.taobao.com/

 

I think SEA means South East Asia? But i could be wrong though...

 

Please try out if you would like so we can know if taobao works for outside SEA countries.

 

*On another note, coming from a background of quick resellers and 'scaplers' in the world of Lego, which started off as purely a hobby. Lego has now turned into a profitable thing here and people are buying and selling them for quick profits like anything. Sources of secret items were commonly disclosed before, but scaplers took advantage and wipe out the stocks from the secret sources just so they can sell on the open market for profits. This deprives true hobby fans of their wanted stuff and it is very saddening. I think this sorts of rubbed off a little on me hence the initial secrecy...  

[kvp]

The site can be accessed from Europe. The search feature has some problems though or maybe it's becase of too many products or trying to use it with google translate. I don't speak chinese so that makes it hard for me to do much.

 

 

especially like MA and Tomytec since they are made in China

Not exactly the information Tomix and MA would be happy to hear as they don't sell their products in China, so anything sold there could only come from Japan or through the fence of the factory.

 

 

Sources of secret items were commonly disclosed before, but scaplers took advantage and wipe out the stocks from the secret sources just so they can sell on the open market for profits. 

Personally these secret sources are not really legal as most of them is stolen from the factories or warehouses. Imho it doesn't matter much if the stolen stuff is bought directly by fans or goes through resellers, since it remains stolen and could seriously undermine the finances of a company if their stuff is stolen and sold, even if it's sold cheaper.

 

On the other hand, i assume your source for these lighting kits are from a honest seller, selling his own product. In this case, giving a direct link to his website or at least writing down the name of the product or the name of the seller would only increase the amount of orders he gets, as a producer of this product he should be able to make a rather large amount of them to meet demands. However if your source has a capped lift rate or has only a non replenishable amount of products, then i understand that you want to keep it a secret.

[JR 500系]

The site can be accessed from Europe. The search feature has some problems though or maybe it's becase of too many products or trying to use it with google translate. I don't speak chinese so that makes it hard for me to do much.

 

 

Good!

 

But I don't know if they will do shipping to Europe though. I think registration is a problem. As I mentioned earlier, the need for the Chinese language is essential here as goggle translator will not give accurate representations of what we mean. Here are some very good key words I came up with from using the site for a long time to find out about the lingo of Chinese that the Chinese use:

 

'N规', or 'N比例' is the most commonly used term for N scale, or you can also use 1/150 to search

 

add in '日本' to mean Japanese in front of them for additional effect, so it can be: 'N比例日本' etc.

 

Searching Tomix, Kato, MicroAce or Tomytec can also churn out results, but beware Kato and Tomix are NOT cheap. You might find some very rare treasures though. 

 

 

 

Not exactly the information Tomix and MA would be happy to hear as they don't sell their products in China, so anything sold there could only come from Japan or through the fence of the factory.

 

 

Probably through the fences of the factory, hence the much lower and stranger source

 

 

 

 

On the other hand, i assume your source for these lighting kits are from a honest seller, selling his own product. In this case, giving a direct link to his website or at least writing down the name of the product or the name of the seller would only increase the amount of orders he gets, as a producer of this product he should be able to make a rather large amount of them to meet demands. However if your source has a capped lift rate or has only a non replenishable amount of products, then i understand that you want to keep it a secret.

 

He is, unfortunately he is only a one man show and have a full time job. It takes much time for him to produce, even with my low orders he is taking a long time to fulfil them. I'm not sure if he is willing to do more, but I did ask his permission before I disclose this here. Not exactly a secret since it's now open, you can search ''N比例室内灯' to find out more. If I intend to keep things a secret I wouldn't post anything in the first place. :)

 

 

 

Personally these secret sources are not really legal as most of them is stolen from the factories or warehouses. Imho it doesn't matter much if the stolen stuff is bought directly by fans or goes through resellers, since it remains stolen and could seriously undermine the finances of a company if their stuff is stolen and sold, even if it's sold cheaper.

 

 

Actually I was referring more to Lego here, apologizes for the misunderstanding. Lego is quite easy to find here in Singapore and prices are only slightly higher than US prices, but cheaper than anywhere else in South East Asia. Because of that, re-selling Lego has turned into a profitable business and 'Lego' speciality shops are pooping out everywhere...

[katoftw]

There is a guy on ebay from china selling Tomytec related stuff much cheaper than tomytec does.  He described it as "like tomytec".  But clearly it is tomytec product without tomytec packaging.  I have already brought stuff, and the "Made in China" and copyright tomytec text is a dead giveaway on the products. haha

Edited June 21, 2015 by katoftw

[E6系]

Hello,

 

Here I draw the line.  If the manufacturer's product is being sold from under their nose, "through the holes in the factory fence" or otherwise, then its a crime and I will not partake.

[HantuBlauLOL]

Sometimes a company just give away rejected items to their employees just because it can't be reused or recycled.

[cteno4]

Some of the blank box tomytec is not copies but rather the items made for the big subscription kits (and packaged in blank boxes) that never sold well. These I believe are ok as tomytec got paid for the number of items contracted for. question is if their agreement allowed ones not sold under subscription to be sold individually...

 

There are gray markets for train stuff!

 

Jeff

[kvp]

 

Sometimes a company just give away rejected items to their employees just because it can't be reused or recycled.

Not really. If they are really rejects, then if they get sold that would damage the company as they won't work. These items must be destroyed or at least made unusable before leaving the factory. The common solution for some workers is to steal the less bad ones and sell them. Often these items end up on the market and the first buyer or the next one will think the company makes bad products with serious quality problems. Some even end up at repair centers as warranty items and this adds fraud to the theft.

 

For example the qc failed Viessman signals that a few people in my N club use tend to get stuck, burn out or just cause a short. We went so far to isolate these from the rest of the modules so if one fails, only one station looses the signals and we don't have a total loconet shutdown on the whole layout. Of course when i mentioned that maybe paying ten times as much for the good retail ones would be better than continously unjamming and repairing the bad ones, i got told that they cost too much. It was even suggested by the seller to buy one retail one and take back the cheap ones one by one under warranty in the original box when they fail and get them exchanged for good ones. Of course most people buy the full price retail ones and some people scratchbuild their own stuff instead of buying stolen ones. The same is true for cars and car parts. (there are quite a few german car factories in hungary too, sometimes stuff gets lost together with a whole truck) The problem is that it's rather hard to do anything with sellers who sell stuff like this. (also the percent of solved stolen car cases is around 4%, so if you want to get back your stolen car it's more effective to hire other criminals to do it or recently far right vigilantes)

 

For chinese rejects, a few people i know bought lego frienjago figures by the kilo. These were figures made out of some partially painted ninjago and friends parts (like snake headed princess dolls) and whatever has fallen off the conveyor belt that day. At least one parts reseller was identified because he was selling parts that were not yet released and could only come from the factory. Actually in Europe selling and even buying stolen goods counts as a crime, but it's rare to see this enforced.

 

The blank box Tomytec parts from Hong Kong are at least not stolen stuff and the manufacturers got paid for them. They count more as new old stock. Actually many of them are part outs from packaged full sets that get sold in pieces for a higher profit than selling the whole package.

 

To get back to the original seller, if i understand correctly, the main problem seems to be capacity, so if one reseller ties down the whole production capacity of the manufacturer, then it won't be easy to get the boards directly from him. That is one thing i completly understand. On the other hand most of us can't read or write chinese and while i could register at the site with google translate, i couldn't do much since i feel the search functionality is completly botched up compared to ebay.

[Kiha_120]

Just my own input on lighting models is by using lithium batteries, holders, switches and suitable fine wiring.

This kind of setup makes each vehicle to be lit, independent with it's own lighting 'format'.

 

I have included pictures of how I overcame the annoying and definitely non prototypical flickering and varying light output by using separate battery units. There are for and againsts this procedure and I list them.

 

FOR:  Completely independently switched vehicles.

           Relatively simple installation.

           A cheap alternative compared to other ways of achieving flicker free lighting.

           Lighting stays on at same level for long periods - stations, signal stops.

           Long lasting battery life ( dependent on number of leds and time 'on' of course ! )

           Using LED's means no damaging heat from filament bulbs.

          

 

AGAINST:

                 Space for installing may be impossible on Japanese outline models ( especially on     dmu's with so much gear underslung between the frames.)

                  Batteries WILL need replacing occasionally.

                  Even where space is tight, it may be impossible to 'hide' the battery holder.

                  This installation necessitates the 'handling' of models to operate the 'on/off' switch

for each vehicle - many modellers mislike handling thier models because of fingerprints etc.

 

 

I hope this idea may encourage you to give it a try - I was very happy with the end results, especially night running trains !  

[kvp]

Adding a battery is always one of the easiest ways, but compared to Tomix constant lighting (which is supported by most LED boards on the market) is imho still too complicated. Of course with japanese rolling stock, that comes preinstalled with all wheel pickups, it's easier to just add a light board. For european models, problems with pickup installation is one of the main reasons for using batteries. Consider that the batteries will be very visible either under the cars or inside the lit passenger areas, it's a nontrivial task to hide or at least conceal them.

 

ps: if you don't want to touch a model for turning the lights on or off, then adding a bistable reed relay under the roof would allow the lights to be turned on and off by holding a small magnet above the car.

[cteno4]

Reed switches are great for that, you then just make the Magic wand with the magnet in the end to turn on cars! A friend of the family did this with his marklin HO, he had a fun time playing conductor turning on and off lighting in cars! It was a pain though as larger batteries and shorter life with filament bulbs!

 

Jeff

[Kiha_120]

Adding a battery is always one of the easiest ways, but compared to Tomix constant lighting (which is supported by most LED boards on the market) is imho still too complicated. Of course with japanese rolling stock, that comes preinstalled with all wheel pickups, it's easier to just add a light board. For european models, problems with pickup installation is one of the main reasons for using batteries. Consider that the batteries will be very visible either under the cars or inside the lit passenger areas, it's a nontrivial task to hide or at least conceal them.

 

ps: if you don't want to touch a model for turning the lights on or off, then adding a bistable reed relay under the roof would allow the lights to be turned on and off by holding a small magnet above the car.

Ahh ! Thanks for the tip re bistable switching !  One of the BEST reasons for joining this forum are like minded people with same interests and knowledge to improve for everyone. I appreciate your suggestion, and it will make my own lighting even more efficient ( and FUN as well ! ).

Just as an aside - does anyone else notice the (lack) of quality on the 'lining' on the Bachmann Mk 1 in the photo ?

I never realised it was as rough until I saw my own photo of it enlarged !

I just wish Kato had made these vehicles back in the day !

Oh well, I don't really mind too much as the British stock will be slowly be replaced as and when more HO stuff becomes available in Japanese outline.

[Kiha_120]

Reed switches are great for that, you then just make the Magic wand with the magnet in the end to turn on cars! A friend of the family did this with his marklin HO, he had a fun time playing conductor turning on and off lighting in cars! It was a pain though as larger batteries and shorter life with filament bulbs!

 

Jeff

Also a great suggestion from you Jeff !  I like the idea of a 'magic' wand !  ( Been listening to too many 'Harry potter' audiobooks ! )

[sedril]

Rapido makes a product with a wand:  http://rapidotrains.com/light_n.html

 

It works pretty well, I just wish it fit in more types of cars...

[HantuBlauLOL]

Finally, my DIY CL controller works!

 

I found the schematic online, so this isn't completely made by me..

 

 

I had to replace the MOSFET with a Darlington, because I can't find it anywhere. And it gives a side effect: VVVF IGBT sound! Perfectly fits my EH500

[cteno4]

Wow, nice. Which circuit did you finally use?

 

I hope the whine is not the armature oscillating, if so it could heat up some. Does the motor get warm at all sitting there with just cl on?

 

Good work!

 

Jeff