Gavino200s new layout

[gavino200]

I put together a rough mockup of the "west end" of the layout. This is the part in drawing above. It's a mountain with a tunnel inside and a storage yard hidden behind. The storage yard will be at board level while the mountain loop will be 3 inches higher than it. The line exiting the storage yard pass under the main line. It will incline upwards gently and exit the mountaing through it's own tunnel portal and continue to inline upward  to the station where it will join the mainline. A branch off the yard exit will stop inclining at a height of 1 inch and continue on in a concrete vally until it meets the lower "subway/commuter" line. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by gavino200

[gavino200]

Latest scarm attempt. I'm working out how to do levels. So far it's more likely that I'll be building sections out of real track and then transferring them to SCARM to put them together. 

 

[gavino200]

I made a provisional design for the west end of the main station. I decided to make cutout templates of the platforms as dealing with the LED wires and protecting the platform details was getting in the way. 

 

I think I'll try to get a giant roll of clear plastic or tracing paper to make an outline of this. That way I can move it around on the layout and decide where it should go. I'll also be able to plan the west end, and then use the same track pieces to plan the east end. I'll collect all the information on the clear plastic. 

 

The east end will be more difficult. The top two lines are coming from the storage yard and have to feed into the main lines so there will be more junctions involved and a four way crossover. 

 

@Kiha66, you once gave me a link for a roll of clear plastic to use as building windows. It was giant. I think it would be perfect for this. Unfortunately it seems to have gotten lost in my last move. Do you remember what name that went by? Cellophene? 

 

If the plastic outline template works, I think I'll try doing that with all the track elements. Then I'll be able to lay them all out together on the board. 

 

 

[gavino200]

I found a giant roll of paper to use to make an outline of the track plan. So I can use my limited track parts to build the east side while putting together the whole station as a tracing on the paper. 

 

I have two options for the station. 

 

Option 1.

Keeps the length of all three platforms (7 platforms).

It may be mechanically simpler as it has some regular track separating each junction.

The downside is that it's a bit longer. 

 

Option 2.

Looses two platform lengths on the third platform

It cuts down on overall length a little bit which is an advantage.

It will call making some custom length track pieces. 

It give a straighter path for trains coming from the storage yard to the mainline. 

 

I like the look of option 2 better. I think it has a more real look. 

 

Anyone see any problems with either of these designs?

 

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2020 by gavino200

[gavino200]

I chose option 2 and put it together. The whole thing is really big, but I think I'll go with it. I also used the outline to make a mock up of the west end of the layout. This is as far "west" as I could put the station. Likely it will go further east with will give more space for the storage yard track to gently rise to the station. But I think as this stage it's a doable setup. 

 

Next, I'll make an outline of the storage yard and tunnel loop. Then take it apart and make a mockup of the East end of the layout. I'll try to transfer everything into SCARM. I have to take everything apart to have the floor of the room redone. The mockups and computer model should give me a good idea of what the table dimensions for the rest of the modules will need to be. 

 

 

 

 

[gavino200]

I built out the storage yard. The size was dictated by the fit of the layout in the room and my track geometry. The smallest line fits a 10 car E5. The largest fits 13 cars of a N700 Nozomi. I'm happy with that. There's probably room for another line, but I don't have enough track to model one, and it might be good to have a wider margin between the track and the table edge.

 

The yard uses up all my kato wooden sleeper track in a non-viewed spot. This will allow me to switch to concrete sleeper track (Peco, tomix) without wasting. 

 

 

 

The yard recorded on paper

 

[gavino200]

Putting together the whole west end using some seriously giant paper I found in Michaels. The main point was to decide what table dimensions I'd need - a simple rectangle or something that tapered in at the inside corner. I decided to keep it simple with a plane rectangle. 

 

This actual outside curve won't be the final one. After the track exits the tunnel I'm going to use Peco track all the way to the station. 

 

 

 

 

[gavino200]

Getting a little more adept with scarm. I'm using it not so much to design but rather as something to look at as I'm trying to imagine the next step. It's much easier for me to design using real track than by selecting pieces from a list. 

 

 

This is my rough plan for the east side. The main double track line will continue on to loop the east side but as elevated track on double piers.

The inside track for the main loop with have a shortening connection between the front and the back so that it can run in a half loop.

 

The pink track will be a commuter/subway line that will run on the more urban east side. It will be ground level on the east but go underground at the front of the board. It will then go under the station and back to the lower level again. 

 

The gray oval is an area where I'd like to put a freight area. It will be a Sagawa depo where the M250 will load and unload. 

 

The other gray line on the west side marks the edge of the mountain, which will hide the storage yard behind it. 

 

 

Next up, will be repeating the mockup experiment for the east side, and buying wood for the next module build. Unfortunately I'll have to rent a truck as it turns out my car can't be fitted with a wire harness for a trailer. 

 

[gavino200]

I tried a bit of primary design using SCARM. I wanted to see if the basic loops could be made to fit this benchwork. I think it will work and I'll go ahead buying wood for this table design. 

 

The actual track positions are fairly arbitrary on the east side. Mainly I was just trying to get loop ends to meet. My SCARM skills are very lacking. I'm going to use my Kato elevated track for the main elevated track, but I'm not going to buy much more Kato track. Likely the lower loop will be Peco or Tomix or a combination. So the final east loops will look different.  I also haven't worked out how to make SCARM render a tunnel yet so I didn't bother posting a 3D view.

 

The orange circle will be my rail freight yard with entry on both ends to the mainline. The blue arc is a connection to shorten the inner loop of the main line, so the trains aren't always following the same loop.

 

On the far east side, I'm just playing with ideas. Nothing there is decided for sure. What you see is maybe a beach, with a rocky head at the end. The trains will go through the rocky head, which will hide the track loop.

 

On the other side is the least definite part. The straight line is a container quay. The elevation is problematic. Most container quays seems to be low. But container ships themselves are pretty high. As sketched below the mainline comes out of the tunnel under the rocky tunnel to a flat raised area where it is again at ground level. I'm not sure if this will work for a container unloading setup. I need to do some research.

 

I could make the low line go to the quay, but I think having container trains running through a subway station would look just too ridiculous. 

Another option would be for a branch of the mainline to descend to the level of the quay and clime back up to reenter the mainline. 

 

Edited January 1, 2021 by gavino200

[gavino200]

A little more thought to the east side. I'm leaning away from a container yard. I think it would be too forced and doesn't fit well with my track levels. An alternative may be a river estuary and hint at a harbor downstream. Bridges and perhaps a ship on the river heading toward an off-layout inner harbor. 

 

These specific loops are somewhat random but the basic loop idea is unavoidable. I need to think about whether 'hiding' the end loop in a rocky peninsula head will make the loop more subtle or somehow draw attention to it. 

 

I've also drawn in a highway crossing the river and heading toward the urban area. 

 

Edited January 1, 2021 by gavino200

[gavino200]

I had a brief infatuation with ships and especially a dry-dock. After a few hours researching ship models and doing some math, I finally have an concept of just how large ships really are (duh). An aircraft carrier in n scale is a whopping ten and a half feet. Even a small destroyer is around three and a half feet. There are a few n scale layouts that have container ships, but I see that they have cleverly used "dwarf" container ships. 

 

I'm going to say goodbye to ships for now. Perhaps a beach and a yacht marina. I'm also going to move to looking at google earth views of Tokyo harbor to look for some interesting things to model. 

 

Quite liking this little scene from Tokyo harbor.

https://earth.google.com/web/search/tokyo,+japan/@35.28327731,139.6574275,4.59377133a,553.69690252d,35y,0h,1.57039285t,360r/data=CigiJgokCS-vA44RjUBAEVT5sNsjVEBAGbdIw7vuBljAIZyIlT9NQ1jA

Edited January 2, 2021 by gavino200

[Sheffie]

Yeah, one thing I realized that really helped me: you don’t need to join all the dots. 

 

I mean, you’re painting a picture. You don’t need to fill in every detail. The observer will make the connections. 

 

So, you can have a container yard if you want, but you don’t need to build all the cranes and actually model a ship to scale. You could use a backdrop of a port scene and build the container yard at the edge of the layout. You could even put a ship at 440:1 scale behind the layout and use forced perspective. 

 

Paint with a broad broad brush and trust the observer to make sense of it. 

[Kiha66]

On 12/23/2020 at 6:00 PM, gavino200 said:

 

@Kiha66, you once gave me a link for a roll of clear plastic to use as building windows. It was giant. I think it would be perfect for this. Unfortunately it seems to have gotten lost in my last move. Do you remember what name that went by? Cellophene? 

 

I believe that the plastic I suggested was Acetate, you can get it in clear sheets or in a roll and cut it to size.  I don't remember what thickness I suggested but I believe its what's used in the clear windows on kato packaging. 

https://www.amazon.com/BUTEFO-Collars-Transparent-Chocolate-Decorating/dp/B07YJM54QM/

[MeTheSwede]

On 1/2/2021 at 4:54 PM, gavino200 said:

 

I'm going to say goodbye to ships for now. Perhaps a beach and a yacht marina. I'm also going to move to looking at google earth views of Tokyo harbor to look for some interesting things to model. 

 

Quite liking this little scene from Tokyo harbor.

https://earth.google.com/web/search/tokyo,+japan/@35.28327731,139.6574275,4.59377133a,553.69690252d,35y,0h,1.57039285t,360r/data=CigiJgokCS-vA44RjUBAEVT5sNsjVEBAGbdIw7vuBljAIZyIlT9NQ1jA

 

YES!

A marina with 2 aircraft carriers and a dozen of frigates and destroyers is just what I want to see in n scale!
It will definetly be a good way to camoflage a loop by drawing my attention elsewhere.  😆

[Martijn Meerts]

I wanted to do a harbour / drydock scene as well at some point, so I went and bought a 1/150 kit of the Nippon Maru sailing ship. Seeing the size of just the hull sort of killed that idea though 😄

 

Of course, my ideas for the layout have changed somewhat, so I might see if I can fit it in somewhere again.

 

[cteno4]

hugh guess this didn’t post a few days ago when I wrote it....

 

one solution to a harbor scene can be a long, thin pop on module like 12-18” wide and 4’ long. With it off it’s a container yard with easier access, then pop on the wharf and ship module to complete the scene.
 

Japan has a lot of coastal shipping being an island and still active and encouraged to reduce truck traffic and CO2

 

$2m can get you a nice small one, some simple ideas for them

 

https://www.nautisnp.com/container-ships

 

Or model this unique roro/lolo ferry-container ship

 

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/02/17/reference/coastal-shipping/

 

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:664328/mmsi:431600876/imo:0/vessel:HIMAWARI_3

 

http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=19025

 

the small container ship and yard on Curt’s layout really is a wonderful focal point. Ship doesn’t have to be uber detailed and a small container crane is just a bunch of H beams glued together fir the most part. Ship is aptly named.
 

http://japanrailmodelers.org/photos/kurtslayout/pages/page_42.html

 

Nice one for your birthday! There are a lot of ship modeling companies out there and many will do custom ships at pretty decent prices, at one point I talked to a couple about doing my dads old research vessel. Most of these are meant for shelf display models and done by workers in the South Pacific region a lot.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Maersk-Alabama-Container-Ship-36-N-Scale-Waterline-Handmade-Wooden-Ship-Model/154101036292?epid=1642260098&hash=item23e1233504:g:M7gAAOSwANhfbByD

 

There was a chap doing a smaller one like 2’ long similar to Curt’s on ebay (and a lot of interesting other models) but have not see him for a while.

another custom modeler with detail!

 

https://nscaleships.com/n-z-scale-ship-index/375-modern-feeder-container-ship/

 

most of it but the bow and stern are like building regular buildings. Railings and stairs are the most pain. 3d printing could handle a lot and sure lists of models out there to carve up for buts not easy to make.

 

jeff

 

[chadbag]

Actually, this is the beauty of N-scale.  A 28-36" ship is not actually that large if you have a larger layout.  A corner (back side -- up against the backdrop) would make a good place to make the edge of a bay or harbor and a place for the ship to live in.  I'll have to try this when I get to the perm layout.

 

This is not something really that feasible in H0

 

Thanks for the links Jeff.

 

[gavino200]

Thanks. Full disclosure: I drew a design for a dry dock on Thursday evening, and then stayed up all night, researching n-scale ships. Not many ships models are in n-scale but there are a few. I found all the links in Jeff's post and a few more. When I noticed that the container ships were custom built "dwarf" container ships made for n-scale layouts, I started doing scale math on real ships. My ideas were so out of whack with reality that I removed my post in a mixture of shame and embarrassment.

 

Not many people have done the ship concept well. Jeff's friend Kurt is one of them. It's a professional grade layout by CMR. That container ship is a custom made dwarf ship.

https://www.custommodelrailroads.com/cmr-train-tokyo.html

 

Wrightsville Harbor is maybe the best complete harbor in n scale I've seen. It has three ships but they're old and none are large. This amazing layout took 10 years to build.

http://www.trainsanddioramas.com/resources/model-railroad-plans/

 

Quinntopia does the "small ship at the edge of the layout" idea pretty well. He was my first inspiration in modelling. Excellent modelling and technical information in basic non-pretentious language. I'm so happy he left his blog up when he quit the hobby.

http://quinntopia.blogspot.com/2011/11/harbor-and-smit-rotterdam.html

 

I also thought about a submarine base, or a patrol boat base. Even a submarine in n scale is about half a meter. And hilariously for my purposes, Japan has the world's largest coast guard boats. All this is ok, but any meaningful harbor theme would still take more space than I've allotted for it in my plans. It needs to have more space to be done well. Now, just between you guys and me, I fully intend to extend the layout further into the adjacent room space in the future. (I'm a room colonizing incrementalist). So I may model the edge of a naval zone, to be developed later in an expansion. Or I may replace the idea with something else. I decided to let it slide for a while as my ruminations mature. It doesn't affect the table size, so it's something I'll come back to later. I'm half tempted to model a naval harbor sometime in the future in a different scale. Warships are just cool. 

 

I do still have to fit a beach into this thing. I promised the family, I'd somehow make scale models of us all soaking up the sun on a beach. No idea how I'll do that but I have plenty of time to work it out. POSER is on my to-do list.

 

To be continued......

Edited January 4, 2021 by gavino200

[Cat]

Ooh, Rice's Coalport is a favourite design; makes me happy to see it done!
 
We'll be doing a shorty version of the small Isozaki Fishing Port, and a tiny marina on the Naka River on the layout; the Oarai Ferry Terminal will just be the seawall at the edge of the layout.
https://www.google.com/maps/search/port+isozaki+ibaraki/@36.3845743,140.6199098,693m/data=!3m1!1e3

[chadbag]

According to Wikipedia the Maersk Alabama (named MV Tygra naow) is about 508' long.  At 1/150 that is about 3.386 feet or a little over 40.64".  I can do something like that even though the "dwarf" 28" version would fit a bit better.

 

Again, thanks for the ideas Gavin and Jeff!

 

[gavino200]

2 minutes ago, Cat said:

Ooh, Rice's Coalport is a favourite design; makes me happy to see it done!
 
We'll be doing a shorty version of the small Isozaki Fishing Port, and a tiny marina on the Naka River on the layout; the Oarai Ferry Terminal will just be the seawall at the edge of the layout.
https://www.google.com/maps/search/port+isozaki+ibaraki/@36.3845743,140.6199098,693m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

Very nice, Cat. Something of that size would be more suitable for a mid-sized layout like mine. I've actually taken to strolling around on google earth looking for inspiration. I haven't left Tokyo bay yet as that's the only part of Japan I've been to with the exception of a few daytrips. I need to take the plunge and explore the coast a bit. 

 

I definitely got the google earth bug. It's a lot of fun exploring that way. It's also much easier to adapt ideas from life than to try to invent everything from imagination. The random angulations, twists and turns produced by necessity could really bring life to a scene. Well, that's my theory anyway. I'll enjoy the process in any case.  

[Kiha66]

Came across this small port with a rail line doing a 180+ degree curve next to it.   Modeling a wharf along the hill with the track curving around up above would be a nice scene for an end module, and could hint at the rest of the port and facilities being out of view.

 

 

[gavino200]

5 minutes ago, Kiha66 said:

Came across this small port with a rail line doing a 180+ degree curve next to it.   Modeling a wharf along the hill with the track curving around up above would be a nice scene for an end module, and could hint at the rest of the port and facilities being out of view.

 

 

 

 

Very nice. Like Cat's post that's more the kind of scene that would fit with a simple layout like mine. Though I don't expect there'll be anything simple about modelling credible beach and water.

 

[gavino200]

I got the twenty 3x3 table legs back today. They're very nicely done. I'll attach them after the train room floor is tiled. The floor guys just started on the workroom today. 

 

 

In the meantime I'm learning detection and automation using a test layout and iTrain. My son got a real kick out of the computer control idea. He's quite into computers these days. When he saw the junctions change by clicking on the junctions on the laptop screen, he lit up. I haven't seen him excited about the trains that much since he was a little kid. 

 

 

 

I'm also ready to start tinkering with the station. My conductive glues and magnets have arrived. I'm still waiting on some track for it. 

 

[Martijn Meerts]

15 hours ago, gavino200 said:

In the meantime I'm learning detection and automation using a test layout and iTrain. My son got a real kick out of the computer control idea. He's quite into computers these days. When he saw the junctions change by clicking on the junctions on the laptop screen, he lit up. I haven't seen him excited about the trains that much since he was a little kid. 

 

Just wait until you've automated running some trains so they automatically slow down and stop at the station, and go in and out of the storage tracks etc 😉