German Intercity (IC) and other train models.

[kvp]

6 hours ago, gavino200 said:

Also, I don't really know what a "Gesellschaftswagen" is. "Society" wagon. What's that? A bar? 

These are later additions, essentially built from stock retired from normal service. The german variant of a joyful train. They are often used with restaurant cars to have all passengers seated at tables. Having a bar is also common.

 

The IC you put together seems correct. When IC service started. these cars came mostly from two services. The cream red cars are from international TEE trains, running with first class cars only. The cream/blue cars came from national express trains. The biggest difference is the color of the skirt, as TEE and older express trains had a dark skirt, while IC cars have the same color skirt as the main body. The locomotives were also pooled, so you could both see the cream/red and cream/blue ones on IC the trains and sometimes the plain blue and red ones originally used for normal trains. (the greens were mostly slower or older ones and not really used on high speed passenger trains)

 

ps: The old ep. 3 color for nornal cars were green for baggage, blue for first class, red for restaurant and green again for second class. (my personal favourite is the red/blue half restaurant car) The new ep. 4 "pop" color was white sides and a colorful band across the windows, different for each train type. In ep. 5, even IC and IR cars got these white with wide color bands look (with a small decorative stripe under the window line), then in ep. 6 the small red stripe we see today.

[disturbman]

9 hours ago, kvp said:

The old ep. 4 color for normal cars were green for baggage, blue for first class, red for restaurant and green again for second class. (my personal favourite is the red/blue half restaurant car)

 

Red and blue with a pantograph  . Wasn't there a red and green car also?

http://www.rheinmodellbahn.de/pages/zugbildung-epoche-iii-bis-v/zugbildung-epoche-iv/d-zuege-epoche-iv.php

[gavino200]

15 hours ago, kvp said:

The new ep. 4 "pop" color was white sides and a colorful band across the windows, different for each train type. In ep. 5, even IC and IR cars got these white with wide color bands look (with a small decorative stripe under the window line), then in ep. 6 the small red stripe we see today.

 

These are what you're talking about? I like these also. They seem a bit harder to find on the market than epoch 4. I might go for one of these some time in the future. 

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Db-bimdzf269xxx-00.jpg

 

http://www.mobadaten.info/wiki/Datei:FLM_5113_(1991-1997).jpg

 

Some good pictures here too.

 

https://hiveminer.com/Tags/br103%2Cintercity/Timeline

Edited February 9, 2018 by gavino200

[kvp]

20 hours ago, gavino200 said:

These are what you're talking about? I like these also. They seem a bit harder to find on the market than epoch 4. I might go for one of these some time in the future. 

Yes, these paints were used just after the reunification. During and after the DB/DR to DBAG transition. The InterRegio trains replaced the conventional fast trains, while the InterCity trains kept their higher speed, stops only at large cities routes. The IR control cars were rebuilds from standard cars and this was the time when a large group of east german locomotives joined the unified fleet. After the end of the IR services, both color schemes were replaced with the modern narrow red band IC design. From this era, my favourites are the blue IR sets, with the blocky ex east german locs in push-pull mode. But this was mostly the newly privatized DBAG era and not the classic national railroad DB / DR era. There is a small difference in the logos between the DB and the DBAG. (much less than between the JNR and JR logos)

[chadbag]

On 2/8/2018 at 5:04 PM, gavino200 said:

 

 

https://www.locs4fun.nl/N_frame.html?https://www.locs4fun.nl/Fleischmann_-8193--N_art_2177.php

 

 

I liked that one, so I ordered it from the guy.  Was a bit bothersome as he only takes bank-transfers for payment, which is hard from the US since the US system is not tied in to the EU system, and it can therefore get expensive.  No PP, CC, etc.  Luckily I have a friend in Munich.  I PayPal'ed him the money and he transferred it for me.  Hopefully all works out (still in the middle of the transaction).

 

[gavino200]

5 minutes ago, chadbag said:

 

I liked that one, so I ordered it from the guy.  Was a bit bothersome as he only takes bank-transfers for payment, which is hard from the US since the US system is not tied in to the EU system, and it can therefore get expensive.  No PP, CC, etc.  Luckily I have a friend in Munich.  I PayPal'ed him the money and he transferred it for me.  Hopefully all works out (still in the middle of the transaction).

 

 

Cool. I'm looking forward to seeing your full train, when you've finished acquiring. How is the DCC conversion of the BR 103 going?

[chadbag]

2 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

 

Cool. I'm looking forward to seeing your full train, when you've finished acquiring. How is the DCC conversion of the BR 103 going?

 

I have not started the conversions yet.  Waiting for some more wired decoders to arrive.

 

I did get a cheap ultra-sonic cleaner and some condiment cups so I can try and clean out everything in the locomotives (water in ultrasonic, bogies etc in 92% isopropyl in the condiment cup floating in the water in the ultrasonic).  And I ordered some 12v LED (pre-wired) from Amazon to replace the incandescent bulbs with.

 

[gavino200]

Great. Maybe you could take some pictures of the process, with a 'before & after". Careful not to get the alcohol on the paintwork. (Yes, I did that once). 

[cteno4]

Excellent chad! The little ultrasonic baths work great for that. You do loose a bit of power floating the cups so if something is stubborn try just filling the chamber with water or isopropanol (you can pour it out and save it if not really funky) and use a mesh tea strainer to hold really small bits if you are concerned getting them out easily. 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Quality-Tea-Ball-Spice-Strainer-Mesh-Infuser-Filter-Stainless-Steel-Herbal/121860607946?epid=1155469090&hash=item1c5f754fca:g:eR0AAOSwJkJWkKCI

 

ok to use water and detergent/degreaser first then water then iso to dry if needed. 

 

jeff

[chadbag]

38 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

Excellent chad! The little ultrasonic baths work great for that. You do loose a bit of power floating the cups so if something is stubborn try just filling the chamber with water or isopropanol (you can pour it out and save it if not really funky) and use a mesh tea strainer to hold really small bits if you are concerned getting them out easily. 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Quality-Tea-Ball-Spice-Strainer-Mesh-Infuser-Filter-Stainless-Steel-Herbal/121860607946?epid=1155469090&hash=item1c5f754fca:g:eR0AAOSwJkJWkKCI

 

ok to use water and detergent/degreaser first then water then iso to dry if needed. 

 

jeff

 

Good to know.  Thanks!   I've only ever used an ultrasonic cleaner with handguns.   I guess our little trains parts of just plastic and metal so hard to hurt (not including the motor), excepting painted surfaces.

 

Thanks

 

 

[cteno4]

yeah not much difference. just make sure to dry out parts with iso as things can start corroding. same issues probably in most hand gun mechanics just larger scale. most plastics in trucks are iso safe but i try not to leave them sit in iso for more than a few minutes just to be safe. the iso does liberate some of the light oils, but mainly its a good water displacer.

 

I only ever do motors if there is significant problems that i cant fix otherwise. that said i have resurrected one old motor that i found in a very old box from my childhood that was pretty well frozen by some good ultrasonic cleaning! shook out what ever was corroded or binding up in it and got it working again.

 

also helps when you are stripping paint as well as it tends to knock out the bits in little grooves and details that tend to be the last to come off in normal soaking and scrubbing. again i try to keep plastics in organics for as short of time as possible.

 

jeff

[Yavianice]

On 2/14/2018 at 7:05 PM, chadbag said:

 

I liked that one, so I ordered it from the guy.  Was a bit bothersome as he only takes bank-transfers for payment, which is hard from the US since the US system is not tied in to the EU system, and it can therefore get expensive.  No PP, CC, etc.  Luckily I have a friend in Munich.  I PayPal'ed him the money and he transferred it for me.  Hopefully all works out (still in the middle of the transaction).

 

Chadbag, 

 

Use Transferwise. Free and compatible with bank transfer between many countries, such as Japan - EU - US - Sillypore etc. And cheaper than even paypal friends due to accurate exchange rate. The recipient doesn't need an account. It works by you paying the company, and the company wiring the money on your behalf. Wiring money is completed in the next business day. I use it to purchase items between forum members and ebay sales/purchases too.

 

transferwise.com/u/michelw27 if you want to sign up.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Yavianice

[chadbag]

1 minute ago, Yavianice said:

Chadbag, 

 

Use Transferwise. Free and compatible with bank transfer between many countries, such as Japan - EU - US - Sillypore etc. And cheaper than even paypal friends due to accurate exchange rate. The recipient doesn't need an account. It works by you paying the company, and the company wiring the money on your behalf. Wiring money is completed in the next business day. I use it to purchase items between forum members and ebay sales/purchases too.

 

transferwise.com/u/michelw27 if you want to sign up.

 

Thanks, I'll look into it.

 

Luckily with PP etc I get the credit card company to do teh exchange and not PP so I avoid the silly conversion fees.  But this looks convenient.

 

Thanks

 

[Yavianice]

13 minutes ago, chadbag said:

Thanks, I'll look into it.

 

Luckily with PP etc I get the credit card company to do teh exchange and not PP so I avoid the silly conversion fees.  But this looks convenient.

 

Most likely you will be able to purchase many more trains now, as most german private eBAY vendors only accept bank transfer because Paypal is waaaaaaay too expensive to use when selling.

[chadbag]

4 minutes ago, Yavianice said:

 

Most likely you will be able to purchase many more trains now, as most german private eBAY vendors only accept bank transfer because Paypal is waaaaaaay too expensive to use when selling.

 

Just what I need.

[Suica]

On 9.2.2018 at 1:04 AM, gavino200 said:

These "Quick Picc" lounge cars are all over the market but I'm not sure how common they really were.

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1440&bih=769&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=5OJ8WpWWK4v-sAXWsozwDg&q=fleischmann+8165&oq=fleischmann+8165&gs_l=psy-ab.3...8791.9501.0.10940.2.2.0.0.0.0.105.208.0j2.2.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.1.104...0i24k1.0.WfPhmGAWFFs#imgrc=1otnz9_DzA-jiM:

 

https://www.locs4fun.nl/N_frame.html?https://www.locs4fun.nl/Fleischmann_-8193--N_art_2177.php

 

These baggage cars are also common on auctions, but I don't know how common they were on regular IC runs

 

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1440&bih=769&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=YuN8WuayH43kjwPs8J7QDA&q=fleischmann+8190&oq=fleischmann+8190&gs_l=psy-ab.3...25212.26988.0.27388.4.4.0.0.0.0.101.369.3j1.4.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.2.193...0i24k1j0i30k1.0.isOSZOsn8To#imgrc=r0wNxdKQ5FKVSM:

 

 

The Quick Pick cars were used from 1975 to 1987. They weren't uncommon.

The baggage cars were quite common. Postal cars were also used http://www.mobadaten.info/wiki/FLM_5189_DB_IV_Post_mrz_Postwagen

 

A typical 1980s IC could look like this:

(loco)(postal car)(baggage car)(2nd class cars)(Restaurant/Quick Pick)(1st class cars)

The cars can all have the same colour or be mixed. The most common mix would be red 1st class cars (maybe plus a red restaurant, though a blue one works as well) with all other cars being blue.

 

 

[gavino200]

3 minutes ago, Suica said:

The Quick Pick cars were used from 1975 to 1987. They weren't uncommon.

The baggage cars were quite common. Postal cars were also used http://www.mobadaten.info/wiki/FLM_5189_DB_IV_Post_mrz_Postwagen

 

A typical 1980s IC could look like this:

(loco)(postal car)(baggage car)(2nd class cars)(Restaurant/Quick Pick)(1st class cars)

The cars can all have the same colour or be mixed. The most common mix would be red 1st class cars (maybe plus a red restaurant, though a blue one works as well) with all other cars being blue.

 

 

 

Just out of curiosity, what would one get in a Quick Picc car? Ready made lunches off a shelf? What's the difference between the Quick Picc and Restaurant cars?

[Suica]

5 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

 

Just out of curiosity, what would one get in a Quick Picc car? Ready made lunches off a shelf? What's the difference between the Quick Picc and Restaurant cars?

It's basically a buffet car. You take a tray, put whatever you want on it and pay at the end.

Here are a few photos of the prototype cars' interior https://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?17,8003542,8003542

[gavino200]

3 minutes ago, Suica said:

It's basically a buffet car. You take a tray, put whatever you want on it and pay at the end.

Here are a few photos of the prototype cars' interior https://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?17,8003542,8003542

 

It's like a mobile Mensa.

 

(from your description. The pictures don't work on the link. I'll look at it later with my VPN)

Edited February 17, 2018 by gavino200

[Suica]

3 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

 

It's like a mobile Mensa.

 

(from your description. The pictures don't work on the link. I'll look at it later with my VPN)

Yup, I think a mensa is a good comparison!

 

Maybe this link will work for you: https://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?017,8003542,8006056#msg-8006056

[gavino200]

2 minutes ago, Suica said:

Yup, I think a mensa is a good comparison!

 

Maybe this link will work for you: https://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?017,8003542,8006056#msg-8006056

 

Cool. Thanks. Love that 1970's style!

[chadbag]

Interesting.  The Quick Pick cars in those pics were solid red and without Pantograph.    The N-Scale Fleischmann are mixed beige/cream with blue/red and with Pantograph, that I have seen.   Obviously they had a variety over time...  T

 

Thanks for sharing the links!

 

[Suica]

10 hours ago, chadbag said:

Interesting.  The Quick Pick cars in those pics were solid red and without Pantograph.    The N-Scale Fleischmann are mixed beige/cream with blue/red and with Pantograph, that I have seen.   Obviously they had a variety over time...  T

 

Thanks for sharing the links!

 

That's because the one in the photos is the prototype. A proof of concept if you will. After testing they considered it to be a success and ordered a bunch of cars, which were also further improved and featured the pantograph.

[kvp]

There were pantographless diner cars. The early variants had gas heated stoves, the later ones used electricity. The source could be either the main head end power line or internal (diesel generator) or external (pantograph). The pantographs mostly disappeard when the last trains were switched to electric heating and they were rarely used on non electrified lines, but when they ran there the car was run from head end power with the panto down.

[Suica]

1 hour ago, kvp said:

The pantographs mostly disappeard when the last trains were switched to electric heating and they were rarely used on non electrified lines, but when they ran there the car was run from head end power with the panto down.

That's not really the case in Germany. Only Intercity and TEE trains featured restaurants with pantographs. Those trains always had electric heating.

The pantograph is never used when the train is moving. The whole purpose of it is to power the equipment when there's no loco coupled to the train.