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German Intercity (IC) and other train models.


gavino200

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Though again, Fleischmann also has "IV" listed on them, so maybe these are later paint/numbering jobs on these ones

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gavino200
2 minutes ago, chadbag said:

Though again, Fleischmann also has "IV" listed on them, so maybe these are later paint/numbering jobs on these ones

 

That could be. Or maybe they were the "overlap period". In any case, God help me, I've started bidding on these coaches. 😲

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Just now, gavino200 said:

 

That could be. Or maybe they were the "overlap period". In any case, God help me, I've started bidding on these coaches. 😲

 

There is no help.

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gavino200

This is supposed to be a 2020 April release. Likely delayed due to everyone's favorite pathogen. But a must have when it comes.

 

https://www.tee-usa.com/store/product58646.html

 

The full set of five cars is listed in the 2020 catalog here.

 

https://www.fleischmann.de/en/news/catalogs/index.html

 

This would be a nice little loco to pull the train.

https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/Electric+Locomotive/Electric+Locomotive/Fleischmann-734104/gb/modell_307111.html

Edited by gavino200
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39 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

 

That could be. Or maybe they were the "overlap period". In any case, God help me, I've started bidding on these coaches. 😲

 

Not sure what "Overlap period" means. 🙂   

 

Based on one of the charts, in 1968 they implemented a universal number scheme for locomotives, wagons, etc.  I assume this is when things like E10 became 110 and E03 became 103.  That sort of thing.  Epoch/Era IV is defined as starting then.  But it shows Epoch/Era III not ending until around 1970...  I would call those locomotives and wagons that had old numbers on them Era III and the ones with new numbers on them Era IV, regardless of the year.  So it would depend, for a specific wagon, how it was numbered/liveried...

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gavino200
50 minutes ago, chadbag said:

 

Not sure what "Overlap period" means. 🙂   

 

 

I mean, they could have been running during more than one Epoch. Like during the end of III or the beginning of IV. But of course I'm only guessing. I am no expert in these matters. Truthfully I'm not even a novice.

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22 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

 

I mean, they could have been running during more than one Epoch. Like during the end of III or the beginning of IV. But of course I'm only guessing. I am no expert in these matters. Truthfully I'm not even a novice.

 

I knew what you meant.  I was just surmising that the actual "Epoch" of the car might be defined by its numbering (and or logo/paint).  That comes from reading the Märklin descriptions.  So you can have Epoch III and Epoch IV cars that are the same physical car, but numbered and logo-ed differently.  Same with the locomotives -- The older BR 120 locomotives are IVb or V and the ones still running in the new red and new number scheme are probably VI.

 

 

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gavino200
1 minute ago, chadbag said:

 

I knew what you meant.  I was just surmising that the actual "Epoch" of the car might be defined by its numbering (and or logo/paint).  That comes from reading the Märklin descriptions.  So you can have Epoch III and Epoch IV cars that are the same physical car, but numbered and logo-ed differently.  Same with the locomotives -- The older BR 120 locomotives are IVb or V and the ones still running in the new red and new number scheme are probably VI.

 

 

 

It's an interesting theory. Who knows.  🤔

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6 hours ago, chadbag said:

 

I knew what you meant.  I was just surmising that the actual "Epoch" of the car might be defined by its numbering (and or logo/paint).  That comes from reading the Märklin descriptions.  So you can have Epoch III and Epoch IV cars that are the same physical car, but numbered and logo-ed differently.  Same with the locomotives -- The older BR 120 locomotives are IVb or V and the ones still running in the new red and new number scheme are probably VI.

 

 

 

6 hours ago, gavino200 said:

 

It's an interesting theory. Who knows.  🤔

 

It's not a theory, it's pretty exactly the definition of the epochs!

The exact dates differ from country to country - the 'official' definitions for Germany can be found in NEM 806 D (in German language only, but you can copy and paste the texts into a translator).

 

Now, as definitions come, they are always a bit artificial, and - depending on what aspect you are currently looking at - at times they may seem to be less than helpful. E.g., liveries: The transition from Ep III to Ep IV is defined by the introduction of computer-readable numbers by the UIC. I.e., engine and waggon numbers were replaced, but the general appearance of rolling stock basically stayed the same. On the other hand, the move from an overall green or blue livery to the beige/blue two tone scheme happened completely inside of Ep IV. In the restricted view of optical appearance this doesn't make too much sense.

 

And of course, any change of regulations takes some time to become effective. This is particularily true for liveries.

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Martijn Meerts

Yeah, German epochs are very well defined. However, as Michi says, not all rolling stock changed exactly when the epoch changed, so it was very common to see older epoch trains running in newer epochs, especially on lines without really heavy traffic.

 

I've seen trains from Germany arrive in Venlo that were a mix of old and new coaches.. Really old ones in original livery with old DB logo, old ones in original livery with new DB logo, new livery with old DB logo, and completely refurbished ones, all in the same train. Locomotives were pretty random as well for a while.

 

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roadstar_na6

The DB is something very un-German in terms of being correct with everything and having a system 😄 It's a mess and if there was a thread about German crazy prototypes it could be filled with even more stuff than a Japanese one.

Edited by roadstar_na6
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gavino200
10 hours ago, MichiK said:

It's not a theory, it's pretty exactly the definition of the epochs!

 

I figured there was a rationale and a history to it. By 'theory' I was referring to Chad's guess as to what the logic was, which was pretty spot on. 

 

10 hours ago, MichiK said:

The exact dates differ from country to country - the 'official' definitions for Germany can be found in NEM 806 D (in German language only, but you can copy and paste the texts into a translator).

 

Thanks for the link. I love that the Epoch are split into periods with parallel East/West variations for III and IV! 

 

This is a pretty interesting website. I see they had a yearly visit to Werningerode to ride the narrow gauge train to the Brocken! I rode that last time I was in Germany. It was lots of fun. 

https://www.morop.org/index.php/en/events/archive.html

I wasn't able to find the archive section where you got this Epoch file from. I was curious if they had them for other countries. Is it in a section that's hidden except for members?

 

10 hours ago, MichiK said:

 

Now, as definitions come, they are always a bit artificial, and - depending on what aspect you are currently looking at - at times they may seem to be less than helpful. E.g., liveries: The transition from Ep III to Ep IV is defined by the introduction of computer-readable numbers by the UIC. I.e., engine and waggon numbers were replaced, but the general appearance of rolling stock basically stayed the same. On the other hand, the move from an overall green or blue livery to the beige/blue two tone scheme happened completely inside of Ep IV. In the restricted view of optical appearance this doesn't make too much sense.

 

And of course, any change of regulations takes some time to become effective. This is particularily true for liveries.

 

Thanks for the summary.

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gavino200
9 hours ago, Martijn Meerts said:

Yeah, German epochs are very well defined. However, as Michi says, not all rolling stock changed exactly when the epoch changed, so it was very common to see older epoch trains running in newer epochs, especially on lines without really heavy traffic.

 

I've seen trains from Germany arrive in Venlo that were a mix of old and new coaches.. Really old ones in original livery with old DB logo, old ones in original livery with new DB logo, new livery with old DB logo, and completely refurbished ones, all in the same train. Locomotives were pretty random as well for a while.

 

 

This is good. I needn't worry about buying the "wrong" wagon here and there. The mistakes might even make the train look more authentic. 

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You're welcome, Gavino!

 

52 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

I wasn't able to find the archive section where you got this Epoch file from. I was curious if they had them for other countries. Is it in a section that's hidden except for members?

 

NEM806D and all the other standard specifications can be found at https://www.morop.eu/index.php/de/nem-normen.html.

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roadstar_na6

These locos were somewhat local to me when pulling corn hopper cars from a mill in my area. Huge things and some strong Eastern Europe vibes coming through 😄

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Yavaris Forge
On 5/8/2020 at 10:36 PM, gavino200 said:

This blue/red trix car would also be a nice addition. 

These were commonly known as Kakadu (cockatoo) coaches because of their paint. Sadly they were all gone before i was born, but i have a Märklin one in H0 scale.

Edited by Yavaris Forge
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3 hours ago, gavino200 said:

A nice video of the train I'm currently collecting cars for.


I was half expecting this to turn into the forklift training video recently posted with the engineer bursting into flames!

 

jeff

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Martijn Meerts

The V200 was the first locomotive that was my own locomotive. Before that I always ran trains that my father or brother had. It came in a starter set together with 3 silberlinge and an oval of track. And a power pack that would probably be illegal according to modern day standards 😄

 

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1 hour ago, Martijn Meerts said:

The V200 was the first locomotive that was my own locomotive. Before that I always ran trains that my father or brother had. It came in a starter set together with 3 silberlinge and an oval of track. And a power pack that would probably be illegal according to modern day standards 😄

 

 

Cool. I remember clearly my first train set. An OO gauge Lima steam engine with some freight wagons, and an oval track. The trains were the only toy that were completely mine. None of my siblings ever had trains before me. And I worked on my simple layout with my Dad. Memories. 🙂

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My siblings were all much older than I was, and we had some sketchy old train sets kicking around.  A Lionel from my oldest brother, and the transformer looked like it would catch on fire if you plugged it in, plus some really beat up American Flyer stuff from the next one.  They were mostly building plastic car models though (and racing slot cars), and I would take the left over pieces and kitbash them into my own creations.  So pretty shortly started getting my own model kits as presents.
: 3

First train set was a small Hornby OO steamer set.  But it was a Tyco HO set with a diesel switcher and a few freight cars that really launched the model railroading.  And then added an AHM EMD-BL2 with the very pretty swoopy lines; I got to pick that one out at Erich Fuch's train store in downtown Boston.  Don't remember what liveries they were originally, as I repainted both in red and white for my own Monongahela Valley RR.  As the sibs all graduated high school and moved out of the house, I got one the vacated bedrooms to use for a train room!

As the youngest, I got to inherit all the hand-me-down modelling tools too, a marvelous hoard of knives, files, pin vices and razor saws — bwa ha ha.

Edited by Cat
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I came across one of these Bundespost cars in Epoch V livery. It's a bit dull by itself, but I love German multicolor trains, so it was add an nice bit of variety. I'm curious how common these were and what trains the tended to run with. IC, IR etc? I'm also curious how common this model is. I've never seen it before. Anyone know anything about these?

 

https://www.spurweite-n.de/ncontent/ndb/ndb-artdetails.asp?ID=4121&NoLog=1&DoLog=1&LogType=1&Sel_AnzahlBerichte_VInt=0-10000&Sel_ORDERBY=Bezeichnung&MaxCount=2838&ToShow=141&ShowState=3

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I like that Post wagon.     I don't know anything about the prototype but color wise it kind of looks like it would be in an IR consist.  That is just me saying where it would look to fit.

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Yavaris Forge

The gray livery was quite rare as most post wagons were painted green or blue/beige. In 1986 the wagons should receive a new livery in yellow but this was quickly changed to gray as yellow was the color of the rail maintenance wagons. In the end most post wagons remained in their usual livery. The wagons could be seen mostly on ICs at nighttime and there even were Post-ICs with 3 to 6 post wagons that traveled at up to 200km/h. 1997 was the last year with regular post services by rail in Germany.

Edited by Yavaris Forge
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