Which C11?

[Tanuki]

There are a number of C11 locos available now, and while I keep telling myself I don't need another steamer, a C11 seems essential. But which one: Tomix, Kato, or one of the Tramway models? Any and all opinions please.

[Kiha66]

I ordered the new Kato C11 yesterday from amiami so I could run it rear first pulling blue trains with knuckle couplers,  When it arrives in a week or so I'll post some pictures, and hopefully can let you know about any updates to the mechanism over the previous version. 

[Tanuki]

Thanks, that would be great!

[ToniBabelony]

I've had this discussion two weeks back and it amounted to what number you'd like to have. For me personally, it'd be the Tomix one, as it's based on the Mooka Railway C11.

[splifdfx]

Note that the Tomix C11 is "mini-able", which means she can run on a C140 radius curve (by replacing a ladder on the side so that it doesn't go in the way of the bogie).

While the Kato C11's minimal passing radius is R216...

Edited April 17, 2017 by splifdfx

[Yavianice]

I picked the TOMIX C11 because I think the KATO C11 is too 'black' as the TOMIX version has more brass colored details.

[Tanuki]

I have considered the Mooka Railway C11 as the Tomix offering since my collection has a strong northern Kanto emphasis due to my living 2 stops south of Kuroiso back in the early 90s. I also have a lot of western Kyushu stuff, too, again based on my living in Kumamoto for a time. I want something that would fit in either scenario, I think.

 

The mini-able thing doesn't really concern me. I use Tomix track and R243 is as tight as I go. The brass vs black is interesting though.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Tanuki

[Densha]

Are there actually pictures available of the new Kato C11? Or not yet? I can't remember seeing any.

 

Edit: Didn't notice they were released already.

 

I prefer the look of the brass details on the Tomix one, but I also like the black wheels of the Kato. Apart from that I think it comes down to your preference for a JNR-era loco (Kato) or a more recent look (Tomix Mooka). Then there's also the price difference.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Densha

[Pashina12]

I'm opting for the Kato offer for the reason Densha mentioned about the appearance. Hopefully it won't be too long until additional number plates are released, with some of the Aizu-Wakamatsu numbers amongst them.

[Yavianice]

I'm opting for the Kato offer for the reason Densha mentioned about the appearance. Hopefully it won't be too long until additional number plates are released, with some of the Aizu-Wakamatsu numbers amongst them.

I do not really see a big difference in the wheels, except that the TOMIX is more stainless steel colors on the rim than the somewhat brown rim of KATO. Is that what you are referring to?

[cteno4]

I picked up the tramway JNR standard C11 on same at hobby search (at 5920¥ it was a steal!). Blackened wheels are nice on this one, but it's a very black looking loco. I have two older microace c11-171 (one with a tender) that I picked up on ebay for $40 eathat has more shiny details. They pop up on ebay now and then at good prices if you lurk...

 

Jeff

[Fenway Park]

The Tramway C11 was not well received by one regular, see below, but they have learnt and the next versions released later in 2017 have a revised drive train with two geared axles as opposed to one on the original.

 

The Tomix version has had running problems according to the link below, and something wrong with the cab steps.

 

Kato's version appears to be OK so far.

 

As the new Tramway version has 2 Kyushu variants that Kato may never produce, I am tempted.

 

Http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~toyoyasu/

Edited April 18, 2017 by cteno4
fixed link

[cteno4]

Hmm maybe why it was so cheap! But ran ok in a test but not hauled anything yet.

 

Jeff

[velotrain]

Fenway Park - do you have a good link?

 

The one you gave doesn't work.

[Darklighter]

http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~toyoyasu/c11n.htm

http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~toyoyasu/c11ktn_1.htm (<= for the new Kato model)

Edited April 18, 2017 by Darklighter

[cteno4]

Also here are other name plates, nice etched brass. Quite the markup but sold out at hs...

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Revolution-Factory-N-Gauge-C11-Number-1-Hokkaido-Rlf4440-/252870312709?hash=item3ae03ec305

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Revolution-Factory-N-Gauge-C11-Number-5-Kinki-Rlf4444-/272632933092?hash=item3f7a306ae4

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Revolution-Factory-N-Gauge-C11-Number-7-Kyushu-2-Rlf4446-/361955433875?hash=item5446399d93

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Revolution-Factory-N-Gauge-C11-Number-3-Tohoku-2-Rlf4442-/272632922466?hash=item3f7a304162

 

Jeff

Edited April 18, 2017 by cteno4

[velotrain]

There is a bit of translated text I don't comprehend in the review on the site that Fenway Park provided, "There is also compatibility with coreless motor steam and power pack. トミックスのパワーユニット（Ｎ－１０００－ＣＬ、Ｎ－６００）でＫＡＴＯのコアレス蒸機を使うと、低速があまり粘りません。 Using KATO's coreless steam at TOMIX's power units (N-1000-CL, N-600), the low speed does not stick so much. 動き出したあとは普通です。 After moving it is normal."

 

I just noticed that when I pasted the translated text in, it appears to have brought the original Japanese with it.

 

Anyway - I can't tell if the "low speed not sticking so much" with Tomix packs is a good or bad thing?  I can visualize the interpretation either way.

 

I'm hoping the Japanese version makes it clear.

[Yavianice]

There is a bit of translated text I don't comprehend in the review on the site that Fenway Park provided, "There is also compatibility with coreless motor steam and power pack. トミックスのパワーユニット（Ｎ－１０００－ＣＬ、Ｎ－６００）でＫＡＴＯのコアレス蒸機を使うと、低速があまり粘りません。 Using KATO's coreless steam at TOMIX's power units (N-1000-CL, N-600), the low speed does not stick so much. 動き出したあとは普通です。 After moving it is normal."

 

I just noticed that when I pasted the translated text in, it appears to have brought the original Japanese with it.

 

Anyway - I can't tell if the "low speed not sticking so much" with Tomix packs is a good or bad thing?  I can visualize the interpretation either way.

 

I'm hoping the Japanese version makes it clear.

 

Some KATO trains do not play kindly with the CL feature on Tomix powerpacks. Therefore, it is not... recommended to use KATO trains with CL Tomix Powerpacks. There are no issues using Tomix trains with ordinary KATO powerpacks, however.

 

If you don't know, the CL feature basically allows interior and head/tail lights to be activated when the train is stationary, on an analogue system, by running a low current through the track. KATO trains do not support the CL feature, and may start running when this feature is activated or behaves funky at low speeds.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Yavianice

[velotrain]

Thanks - I knew the general background, but just couldn't work out "stick so much".

 

Sounds like he's talking about the funky behavior.

[Fenway Park]

Sorry, it would appear I left the > out of the link. Thanks to other members of the group for sorting out the link.

The C11 is one of the most common steam locos in the JNR era. We all bought the old Kato model and when Micro Ace joined in they added new versions which Kato never matched. All were to the old scale. So when 1/150 became the new standard, Micro Ace were left behind.

Tramway were the first to offer a 1/150 C11 with all the faults of their Mk 1 version. The floodgates were opened with Tomix offering their C11 version for the Mooka Railway. Kato then offered their new version of the C11 to compete with Tomix and Tramway.

I have ordered all 3 so will be keen to say which version is then best.

[Densha]

This blog post features some comparisons of the new and old Kato models and the Tomix model. Also some videos.

 

http://model-railroad.takuo.main.jp/?eid=318

[Yavianice]

This blog post features some comparisons of the new and old Kato models and the Tomix model. Also some videos.

 

http://model-railroad.takuo.main.jp/?eid=318

Great post! I still prefer the TOMIX C11 with the brass details. And in some ways, it looks less toy-ish and with more details (like the front, and rear closing lantern), somehow.

 

P.S.: Also, it's interesting to see the old KATO C11 compared to the new KATO C11, I heard about the old one not being really 1/150 scale, but the difference is bigger than I expected!

[Densha]

The first video shows the Oigawa Railway C11 227 with details painted black (like in the JNR-era), whilst the second video shows JR East's (?) C11 325 on the Ban'etsu East Line with the details like the Tomix Mooka release. Also notice that the black-ish wheels of the Kato definitely correspond better with either C11 in prototype, as brightly shining clean wheels is not something you would expect from a steam locomotive, except for maybe the flanges.

 

 

[Kiha66]

My Kato C11 arrived today!  I don't really know what to say, except that this is an amazing loco!  Brass colored piping, blackened wheels, and surprisingly, kato has printed a whole bunch of lettering and other details that really stand out on the dark body.  Even better, I think this is the best running locomotive I own, in any scale.  It creeps even better than my 15 wheel pickup AC12, and runs super quiet.  I'll try to get get some pictures this afternoon, once I get the number plates installed. 

[velotrain]

 It creeps even better than my 15 wheel pickup AC12

 

Is there some technical reason why the 16th driver doesn't have pickup?