Chicago L style elevated train structure

[velotrain]

Could someone provide another term for the GreenMax "funabashi" girders shown in the link - I tried many terms on HS, all with no luck. 

 

http://layout.client.jp/log20.html

 

I gather Funabashi is a station, but don't know if the girders are part of a station kit or just what.  They look quite good, and being GM I'm hoping they're not overly expensive - which is the issue with adapting the side girders from plate girder bridges.  I haven't found anyone-anywhere that produces suitable girders as a separate product.  Plastruct "might" have something usable, but their items in similar categories tend to be quite pricey.

 

 

I don't so much want cars that look American, but rather look somewhat credible on top of a rahmen / plate girder support structure.  I'm quite happy to admit that no prototype for this existed in Japan, but feel that if a Japanese modeler can pretend that it did, then I'm also empowered ;-)  If I was modeling a US elevated system, I'd use the prototypical and excellent Imagine That Laser Art components, although probably in HO scale where there are subway cars available, while for N scale it's a Shapeways build/power/detail/paint/glaze/decal project.  Besides - the quality of the ITLA structures is such that I'd want a commensurate amount of detail on the cars.

 

 

He could have upgraded the elevated line without removing it, and I'm not even sure it was ever fastened down in the first place.  I'm thinking it was that whole section of the layout that he wanted to relocate, but I haven't gone through all of the blogs yet to identify just what the reason is, or why he added the modern downtown in the first place.

[kvp]

Those are just standard plate girder bridge parts.

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10169286

[velotrain]

Thanks.  Greenmax also made a 103 mm version, but it looks like it's no longer available.

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10228679

[Rmsinsd]

Sure wish I didn't have to scratch-build...

 

...cause it takes a while! This is Kato's catenary product, cut up and pieced together. It looks "ok", but it isn't very strong. I've just started this, and elsewhere I used Kato's pillars, but they end up being in the roadway.

[inobu]

It's either time or money the sad thing is I'm short on both. Scratch build can lead you down a rabbit hole. 

 

Here is a link

 

Ends up being almost $50 a foot.

 

Inobu

[velotrain]

Inobu - this option was discussed early in the thread -

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/12654-chicago-l-style-elevated-train-structure/?p=151820

[inobu]

Inobu - this option was discussed early in the thread -

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/12654-chicago-l-style-elevated-train-structure/?p=151820

Missed that

 

Inobu

[velotrain]

You have to look ;-)

[velotrain]

I was looking again at some photos of the Tokyo Metro that Bill provided links to, and was puzzled by the single track in this image:

 

http://funini.com/train/tokyo/metro/ginza/index.html.en#tokyo/metro/ginza/11full

 

It seems infinitely more likely that the track came first and the buildings later, and I'm reasonably certain that the matching track is nearby, but wondered if anyone is familiar with this situation?

[kvp]

That is the depot track. If you look on street view, the actual depot building is right across the ramp on the other side of the street.

[velotrain]

Sure wish I didn't have to scratch-build...

 

...cause it takes a while! This is Kato's catenary product, cut up and pieced together. It looks "ok", but it isn't very strong. I've just started this, and elsewhere I used Kato's pillars, but they end up being in the roadway.

 

I thought you were going to try the corresponding HO scale set?

 

Spacing the supports closer together might help with the strength issue. 

 

I was wondering just how / where you're experiencing this, or does it just generally seem fragile?

 

My latest thought is to insert a 3/8" Plastruct / Evergreen I-beam between the very tops of the poles - resting on top of the horizontal rahmen lattice beam, and then connect the supports using ~4" long sections of the I-beams, roughly located under each rail of the tracks.  By varying the length of these four beams within a section - and with careful cutting/sanding, it'll be possible to support curved track in the prototype manner. 

I realize this doesn't apply to the viaduct track you're using.

[velotrain]

Going back to the blog entry that Bill originally linked to, I had previously noticed that the modeler shortened the Kato cross-span so the poles would work on the outer edge of the sidewalk for a street with two lanes of traffic.  I also saw that the cap sections had been removed from the poles.

 

However, I just realized why - he's added them to the bottom of the legs to increase the height of everything.  This is most obvious where he first shows the modified Kato components sprayed with the cream color.

 

Speaking of this modeler, can anyone identify a name and possibly an email address for him?  I tried looking for the initial blog posts, but it seems they're missing, and everything else appears to reference the blog host.

 

Since I'm planning to insert an I-beam between the two caps sections, I won't be removing them.  However, I have considered adding a section of 1/4" square styrene (of undetermined length, and painted as concrete) under the supplied bottom leg caps to raise the track height.  I will likely need to lengthen the cross-spans at the station to support the platforms, and perhaps the stairs - although they could attach at the platform end.

Hopefully the three-track version in the foreground will work.

 

 

 

 

Another possibility for the stations is to sacrifice some of the pieces, cut off the outer sections of the horizontal element, and glue them to the outside of the vertical support, somewhat similar to what is done in Chicago.  After all, the platforms don't require the same level of support as the tracks do.

 

https://500px.com/photo/6021571/-l-track-chicago-by-elena-kovalevich

 

Photo by elena-kovalevich, found on Pinterest

 

[inobu]

Depending on ones graphical skills a digital print may be worth a try. The key is to get the shadows in the right places and add reliefs along edges. It may take a little design time but the production time will be cut in half. 

 

 

 

Inobu

[velotrain]

Having gotten interested in this general subject, I just received a copy of The Elevated Railways of Manhattan, which is a large, thick, and quite handsome book published by the Electric Railroaders Association.  I bought my copy from the Boston Street Railway Association, which offers a slight discount.  I have no information on possible overseas purchases, but a fair number of booksellers appear to carry it, or you could send a query to one of the organizations listed below.

 

The full history is covered - starting with the steam era, which lasted until just after the turn of the century.  There were periodic expansions and improvements, some providing for a center express track - which often had its own stations on a flyover track to prevent the need for widening the local station platforms below.

 

As has been previously discussed, the Manhattan elevated lines were removed between 1938-55 for multiple reasons.  There is a wealth of both B&W and color photographs, maps, and other documentation, including detailed rosters of all electric cars ever to have operated on the elevated lines, as well as the steam engines and steam-era passenger cars.

 

I enthusiastically recommend this book to anyone interested in urban rail-based transit systems.

 

 

https://erausa.org/

https://erausa.org/bookstore/

 

https://thebsra.org/bsra/

https://www.thebsra.org/store/search/?query=Elevated+Railways+of+Manhattan&records=6&x=63&y=10

 

 

 

[velotrain]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well - with no little effort I built a test section of pseudo-American-subway elevated track.  I'm generally satisfied with them, but sure wish the Greenmax 2196 was still available to use for the stringers.

 

Assembling these from styrene I-beam pieces was so fussy, that I'm considering building my own I-beams from three sections of strip instead.  I could use the NWSL Chopper to quickly get exact length pieces, and could adjust the lengths for the short sections that I now remove from the top and bottom at the ends to insert each stringer into the crosspiece.  Using four of them for each section means needing to get them all within about 1 mm of each other for the alignment to work.  It does seem a bit ironic to "simplify" the build process by tripling the number of parts . . . . .

 

It's difficult enough that I'm not at all sure I'd try a piece of curved track with the current method.  I may opt to only use the two outer stringers, which would have a number of benefits - including cost, and reduced complexity.  Once I have the track on top I doubt it would be readily visible.  The main thing standing in the way would be guilt, especially after all my comments about other elevated track solutions lacking properly supported track.  At least I'd be trying to simulate the prototype.

 

Next I'll add the ME bridge track and the GM third rail, and make an evaluation on my approach before trying a longer section for a station. 

 

 

Speaking of which, I found a few images of some of the double-decker 3rd Avenue El stations, with the express line having its own platforms on top of the locals, that I had read about in the ERA book.

 

https://uk.pinterest.com/pin/68820700534668221/

 

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/248401735673533299/

 

http://www.vintagephotos.com/Subway%20Flatcar%20by%20Nat%20Fein%20Copyrights%20Nat%20Fein%20Estate%2090%20DPI.jpg

 

This one is on the ninth Avenue line:

 

https://it.pinterest.com/pin/364087951098163264/

 

 

Also, I know Japan has some complex trackwork, but this has to be the densest track I've ever seen anywhere.  If anyone thinks they might know something better, I'd love to see it.

 

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/490681321871461838/

 

[serotta1972]

That looks good Charles - looking forward to seeing the finish product.  We have elevated tracks here in SF Bay Area with the BART system but it's the boring concrete stuff unlike the metal lattices of old that you're replicating.