D51 357 photo - location?

[Bonnet485]

Can you help me in identifying the location of the photo below?

 

 

The only info in the railfan publication I took it from is that it was made in March 1963 in Morioka. The locomotive is one of the first two D51s modified with a Giesl ejector in 1963, so the date seems right; and the loco did belong to Morioka Engine Depot (until electrification of the Tohoku Main Line when D51 357 was transferred to Oiwate on Kyushu). But this can't be Morioka station, because Mount Iwate would be visible in the background and I don't find a place for such a track arrangement on old photographs.

 

So where could it be? Maybe Sembokucho station, in the south of the city? Or maybe the site of the modern Aoyama station, in the north of the city? Or elsewhere along the Tohoku Main Line? And what is that pair of black-white-striped bars (on the ground beside the group of apparent US soldiers) for? Maybe they mark a footpath for workers at a depot?

 

If you have no good guesses or hints, can you help me in asking the question at a Japanese railfan forum? (I can read Japanese only with the help of Google Translate and don't know which site would be the best target for such a question.)

[miyakoji]

Due to the lack of landmarks, I think Morioka may be as specific as you will be able to determine.  To the left of that signal mast, is that a track and a platform?  Do you have any other pictures that you know to be at the same location?  I don't think those guys in the distance are necessarily US servicemen.

 

Cool picture, though.  Welcome to the forum :)

[Kabutoni]

Any text that came with this picture? If not, I can ask around in my contact lists a bit.

[westfalen]

My guess is that the group of men are not servicemen but train crew (two drivers, two firemen) and the location is a crew change point.

[bikkuri bahn]

I have to agree with westy regarding the men in uniform. The man in the foreground looks like he's wearing the JNR standard pattern tunic for engine crew, and the distinctive cap with the pinching in the rear, like this:

http://train-garakuta.cocolog-nifty.com/photos/uncategorized/2014/11/09/_dsg5002.jpg

 

As there are no landmarks pictured (it would have really helped if a bit more of the left and right edges had been in view), it's hard to place the picture.

[railsquid]

Can you help me in identifying the location of the photo below?

 

 

 But this can't be Morioka station, because Mount Iwate would be visible in the background and I don't find a place for such a track arrangement on old photographs.

 

If the photo was taken around the middle of the day, this means the camera could be facing north/north-east (ish), so Mt. Iwata or any other mountains would be on the left and possibly not visible in the picture. Just a thought. I'm not really familar with the area.

[railsquid]

FWIW somewhere a Japanese government agency provides historical aerial photos. It might be this site: http://airphoto.gis.go.jp/ but it's been a while since I last used it, and the interface is in Japanese only and extremely clunky.

[Bonnet485]

Replies to all:

• miyatoki: I do recognise at least one track on the right edge in the distance, indeed, but there is no platform. If there is a platform, it's in the back of the photographer. Due to a fold, I couldn't get the right edge of the picture but I think the black but shiny something to the right of the loco is not a building but a tank wagon on a third track to the right (there is a Sun-lit patch below it).
  Another feature I see is the tower behind the signal, which seems to be one of those towers for floodlights which were ubiquitous at Japanese main stations. However, if there would be a platform in the photographer's back, the tower's location is strange. Not so if the location is at an engine depot, on the edge of a main station. My hunch is that those black-white-striped bars on the ground might be evidence in that direction, too (I think they are too makeshift for a public pedestrian crossing), but would like the comment of someone with knowledge.
  The lack of certain features can also help: I see no overhead line (so the location is definitely north of Sendai), no platform bridge, no high-rises, no high mountains, and no form signals.
  Another type of info which could possibly help (though I would only expect it from a Japanese forum) is train runs; that is, how far from Morioka could a loco get if stationed there.
• Kabutoni (a.k.a. Toni Babelony): Unfortunately, as I stated, the only text is that it's D51 357 in March 1963 at Morioka. The photographer is unknown. (The photo was sent by Giesl himself to a railfan in then East Germany half a century ago.) I thank you in advance if you ask your contacts.
• westfalen, bikkuri bahn: I stand corrected about the uniform. If these are drivers and firemen, that fits my hunch that the location is near an engine depot perfectly.
• railsquid: the shadow angles indicate a viewing angle between NW and NE indeed. However, if it would be Morioka station itself, through tracks are straight there, all in the SE-NW direction, and Mount Iwate, a quite prominent and large volcano, is right in their axis. Thank you for the aerial photo archive link, I'll look into it.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Bonnet485

[mrp]

Would distant mountains show up reliably in those old black and white photographs? I don't know if it's because of the age of the photos - or limitations of equipment or film stock - or weather conditions at the time - but glancing through a few old photos of D51s, the background scenery often seems to wash out to a uniform overexposed hazy white.

 

Not really much help with the subject at hand - but Google stumbled on this really nice old photo of the Morioka yards (I think).

 

 

http://luck2000.at.webry.info/200801/article_4.html

 

 

[Bonnet485]

FWIW somewhere a Japanese government agency provides historical aerial photos. It might be this site: http://airphoto.gis.go.jp/ but it's been a while since I last used it, and the interface is in Japanese only and extremely clunky.

 

I found the "real" site a few clicks behind your site. It is clunky indeed, but it proved itself a great resource once I mastered it, so many tanks for the hint!

 

As for the photo location, unfortunately, I'm not sure I found it yet. I checked every Tohoku Main Line station between Sendai and Hachinohe (and a few main stations left and right), but found no perfect fit. A wide island between tracks is a very rare feature. None of the depots have one in the right place besides freight sidings/through tracks. Most island platforms were too narrow for the wide space on the photo. Of the few with wider platforms, Tajiri station had a 1960s track layout similar to the photo and there would have been low hills on the horizon, but I see no tower to the north on the aerial photographs. (Nor could I find old photos with Google. (For that matter, I could find absolutely no photographs of black-white-striped bars on the ground like on the photo.))

Edited May 24, 2016 by Bonnet485

[Bonnet485]

Not really much help with the subject at hand - but Google stumbled on this really nice old photo of the Morioka yards (I think).

 

Nice indeed. Today the Shinkansen tracks run in place of the tracks to the right. The steam loco depot was on the extreme right, you can see a water tower. You can also see two of those towers for floodlights of which I think another is behind the light signal on my photo..