European Brands

[serotta1972]

I've always had an interest in European trains, I just didn't have the funds to support it. I'd like to expand my railroad empire further and now can afford a few European models. I started doing my research online and noticed that N scale trains cost just as much if not more at times than HO. Part of the reason I got into N scale was that it was cheaper than HO in terms of American trains and most definitely Japanese trains. So in the case of European trains, since it's almost the same cost as N scale and will be a limited collection I thought I would get HO trains instead.

 

There seem to be a number of brands: Fleischmann, Trix, Piko, Brawa, Roco and others. Prices seem to be about the same although I found that Piko had some cheapers Locos in low $100's while the other brands were mostly $150+. I don't really care for DCC and I know a lot of them come ready. Can someone shed any light on quality and or preference. I've read some stuff here and there but would love some insight from folks here in the forum as I've come to value the knowledge and expertise that exist here. Or maybe a link to a discussion on this matter on other forums. Also, any links to online retailers would be much appreciated.

 

Thank you in advance for your time and insights.

 

-Junior

[Alemino]

From my experiences:

In europe first of all, in HO you have AC and DC.

AC is Marklin. ( and i have no idea being DC guy)

Roco, Piko, HAG and others also produce trains in AC

Then you have DC

Here you find ROCO, Piko, HAG, Trix, Brawa, hornby,....

 

Mostly here (in switzerland), you find lots of shop which sell both, specially online. But if you go to a local shop you may get more AC or more DC, depending the location!

Where i live, you have 75% AC and 25% DC..( my estimate) in another region, you get 100% AC

 

Mostly new models you can get them  AC digital (analogic), AC digital sound, DC analogic and DCC with sound. The same locomotive, 4 alternatives!

 

 

Other particular: mostly shops ( i personally know) sell country models. Example her ein switzerland you find 90% of train being swiss, 10% a mix of US, German and so on.

 

N is the same. Only DC, but lots of shop tend to be local (country specific)

 

about my personal experiences:

I'm DC (DCC in HO) and i my brand of choice are ROCO and HAG

HAG is a swiss brand which make only swiss trains. Expensive ( a locomotive is 700$) but are cast metal.

ROCO is middle class and the quality is excellent for the price you pay. In term of driving ( very silent) and quality.

Piko: i have one locomotive but she's noisy. PIko in my book is a little the cheap side of train. Not bad, run good, but not a ROCO. On the other hands, i prefer as freight cars Piko. Are metal.

Is depending what you look!

 

As online shops i only know swiss one

here a good one https://www.berchersternlicht.ch

Edited April 9, 2016 by Alemino

[serotta1972]

Thank you Alemino! Just to clarify, I'm interested in DC Analog and the trains that are catching my attention are German and Swiss prototypes. I will mainly be getting locomotives and some coaches.

[kvp]

H0 AC is also known as the three rail system and despite all the efforts, the tracks look rather toy like (see: US S gauge). Most manufacturers sell DC/DCC versions of their products as that is the standard outside old west german regions. Maerklin H0 is AC, but the exact same models are sold in two rail DC/DCC as Trix, since they are actually the same company.

 

Most manufacturers sell playtime, hobby, standard and exclusive variants of their trains, these correspond to similar categories as the kato pocket line, tomytec, tomix/kato and tomix high grade sets. Also usually there are analog, digital and digital with sound variants of the trains available off the shelf.

 

Cast metal construction is more popular for steam locomotives but plastic shells tend to have better details, so apart from brass, modern models are usually plastic.

 

Engineering wise the mechanical quality is usually a bit below standard japanese N scale, but digital technology is more prevalent.

 

For shops, you can try the webshops of the manufacturers, conrad.de or ebay.de as a general market, but for the latter please beware of ancient near junk quality models.

 

Generally you can't choose a single manufacturer as many prototypical train consists need rolling stock from 2-3 manufacturers. I would say if you get new trains only, then most major brands will be reliable, while used trains can anything.

[Welshbloke]

One other brand you might come across is Hamo.

 

Before Marklin bought Trix (which they now use for their 2-rail DC releases) they used the Hamo brand to release two rail versions of their HO locos. They're pretty much identical to their AC range but with a permanent magnet motor, insulated wheels and two rail pickups.

 

My experience of Marklin is that the models can be a bit agricultural, but they're tough and reliable (at least the older ones were - I'm aware that they've wobbled somewhat in the last ten years). I'm particularly fond of my four SBB Re 4/4 IVs which are made almost entirely of metal, as a result they run quietly and are powerful despite only having four wheels driven via a "pancake" motor.

 

Older Fleischmann can be a minefield, they went through a phase of using some odd scales years ago. Their current range has settled on standard HO though.

 

Which reminds me, carriage lengths. A lot of older models were to 1:100 scale length but 1:87 scale height and width, in order to get long coaches around train set curves. Some have now moved to 1:93 (I think) and others again are at full 1:87 scale length.

[bill937ca]

Eurorail Hobbies in Vancouver is a  Marklin dealer.  The one time I bought some Faller items from them the order was very slow to process. But everything worked out fine.

 

Reynauld's is another US dealer of European trains.

 

I've ordered trams and other items in the past from Modellbahnshop-Lippe in Germany and it was a good experience.  They have two stores as well as an online presence.

[kvp]

One thing though: If you don't just collect trains but want to run them, then keeping the same scale (N) could have its benefits, like sharable tracks and in case of N, double the length and 4 times the surface on the same footprint...

[serotta1972]

Thank you gentlemen for all the input, I really appreciate it. And KVP, thanks for pointing that out about sharing track and mainly the footprint - I kind of loss sight of that, a big reason I like N scale and especially passenger trains. Got some more thinking to do.

[railsquid]

I've no  idea about HO, but I do have a fair bit of European (mainly German) N, while it's still more expensive than Japanese N, if you don't need the newest gizmos (i.e. DCC support and forward/reverse LED lighting), older models 2nd hand are much better value.

[serotta1972]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention - I'm going for new stuff. I've had mixed experience with used stuff, mostly not good. Unless I can see an item first hand like at a train show then I would consider the older stuff.

[railsquid]

Fair enough; so far I've been fairly lucky, though my Ebay purchases at least have been from established purveyors of 2nd hand stock, not random people clearing out their basement. The couple of duds have been outweighed by the ostensible "non-runners" which were easy fixes, and ironically the only brand new German loco I've purchased, a Fleischmann, worked fine in the shop and conked out on about the 10th lap around my home layout. YMMV.

[Darklighter]

I don't know much about European model trains, but my favorite German forum is http://www.stummiforum.de/index.php and another popular German dealer is http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/index.cfm?sprache=E .

[Claude_Dreyfus]

My N gauge European modelling is limited to a Fleischmann electric and a 40 year old rake of Silverfish, plus a Minitrix Koploper; but Fleischmann, Roco, Minitrix and Kato/Hobbytrain all are fine.

 

Avoid AC as they are wired completely differently to DC and are completely incompatible...you even need to change wheels on Maerklin stock to run on DC. I have a few H0 models. Watch for Piko ad they have three distinct standards of models. The Hobby range is very basic. I have an H0 tank engine from Piko and it is excellent.

[Welshbloke]

One thing though: If you don't just collect trains but want to run them, then keeping the same scale (N) could have its benefits, like sharable tracks and in case of N, double the length and 4 times the surface on the same footprint...

 

Another thought - the money you'd have to spend on HO track will probably buy a fair amount of N scale stock...

 

As for N, my experience is mostly Fleischmann as that was relatively easy to obtain. My main complaint is that the passenger stock rides too high, I didn't really notice until I got hold of a few Arnold coaches which sit at a far more realistic height.

[Suica]

As Claude already mentioned, Piko currently has three categories. Hobby, Expert and Classic.

Hobby are pretty basic starter models. Good for playing.

Expert are standard models, kinda comparable to what you'll usually get from Roco and Fleischmann.

Classic are special editions with even more details.

 

Keep in mind, Piko was the biggest H0 gauge model manufacturer in East German, so you'll find lots of DDR era models online. These are usually not really comparable to modern models, however some are quite beautiful looking considering their age. Especially their steam locomotives.

The old motors can be quite rough but they're hard to kill.

 

New N gauge Piko models are pretty nice too and their prices, compared to other German manufacturers, are really fair.

[Welshbloke]

I quite like the Piko "Hobby" models of IC/EC coaches. Yes they're 1:100 length but they have a nicely crisp look to them, and run well thanks to metal wheels and chunky construction.

 

I really must get hold of one of their DDR articulated double deck sets in N, they don't look bad at all. A matching loco could be interesting as a historical item.

[Suica]

I really must get hold of one of their DDR articulated double deck sets in N, they don't look bad at all. A matching loco could be interesting as a historical item.

 

Yeah, the Piko Doppelstock Gliederzug is really nice, plus it's widely available. After the German reunification Minitrix actually got their hands on the Piko casts and released it again.

Finding a matching loco is fortunately not hard when it comes to DR trains. As long as it was still in service at the time you want display almost anything goes. Type "DR Doppelstock" or "DR Gliederzug" in google image search and take whatever you like best.

[serotta1972]

Wonderful, thank you for the additional information - feels like I'm at a hobby shop like the days of old. I miss having been able to put models in my hands, see them test run and get first hand information from other model railroaders or collectors and make an informed decision. This is as good as it gets I supposed in our cyber world. Thanks again, very much appreciated! -Junior

[kvp]

For the double deck trains, there were many types and the articulated series had two major series, one with the doors over 3 axle cars and the compartements hanging between these and one with more conventional jackobs bogies. There were standard coach and push-pull cab car variants too. The other double deckers are normal bogie cars (both the earliest and the latest ones) Loco wise, these trains used steam, diesel and electric power throughout the years. There were at least 7 different paints in use, both the basic green design that changed over time, while some were local to various regions.

 

If anyone wants to run ancient N scale cars, the plastic/aluminium wheels should be changed to modern ones. I found that old Piko and Minitrix cars work nicely with modern graham farish finescale wheels and old Arnold rapido ones with Tomytec/Tomix old type wheels.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

I love the Piko Doppelstock. I have the H0 epoch 3 DR green set. In a word; magnificent!

[Welshbloke]

Yeah, the Piko Doppelstock Gliederzug is really nice, plus it's widely available. After the German reunification Minitrix actually got their hands on the Piko casts and released it again.

Finding a matching loco is fortunately not hard when it comes to DR trains. As long as it was still in service at the time you want display almost anything goes. Type "DR Doppelstock" or "DR Gliederzug" in google image search and take whatever you like best.

 

Well, by matching I meant an original DDR production Piko model. I realise they're crude but I'm guessing they're fairly cheap as a result! I have a few old N scale items including a Farish ex-LMS 2P/4P with brass gears, which will eventually gain a short train of non-corridor stock when I see some with the right livery/boxes/couplings to match the loco.

 

I'm actually in the midst of restoring a 1990s Farish BR Class 25. Had it from new, as usual the axle and 12t idler gears have all cracked. I've got hold of some new wheelsets with the new wider gears, just need to ring BR Lines and order some 12t gears to finish the job. The bodywork isn't bad and the motor whirred away contentedly when given a few volts. Also need a pair of MK3 bogie frames for my Lab 6 conversion project, and a new pantograph for a Class 91 I bought recently.

[kvp]

 

Well, by matching I meant an original DDR production Piko model. I realise they're crude but I'm guessing they're fairly cheap as a result!

The newer ones use the same forms, so if you get one without paint damage, then it will be as good as a new. The wheels have to be swapped though if you want to run on modern tracks. For a locomotive, try to get the larger original Piko tank steamer with a good paint and undamaged driving gear. They are prototypically matching and the locomotive looks rather good compared to others from the same DDR production. Personally, i have a few of the original 4 axle piko tank cars made for MAV (hungarian railways). They are painted and lettered correctly with metal railings and with new wheels added, they still look good. (no close couplers though) The old N scale Piko cars and locomotives were a hit and miss, sometimes they look good as models even today, sometimes they looked bad even back then. (good examples are the 4 axle tank cars versus the crude 2 axle ones or the steam locomotives versus most diesels)

 

ps: i would like to add a remark about older N scale models: some of the older cars are 80% shorties and the earliest Arnold Rapido-s and Trix Express-es were 1:150 and not 1:160 and since they represent the standard gauge wider body european prototype, they might be out of loading gauge for modern layouts, even for japanese or british ones

[railsquid]

Yeah, the Piko Doppelstock Gliederzug is really nice, plus it's widely available. After the German reunification Minitrix actually got their hands on the Piko casts and released it again.

 

Aha, I found one of those here in Tokyo and thought it might be an export model produced on behalf of Trix

main difference is the Minitrix model has seating (though the lack of seating doesn't really stand out in the Piko version)

[railsquid]

Well, by matching I meant an original DDR production Piko model. I realise they're crude but I'm guessing they're fairly cheap as a result!

 

Very, very crude.

[Alemino]

For the double deck trains, there were many types and the articulated series had two major series, one with the doors over 3 axle cars and the compartements hanging between these and one with more conventional jackobs bogies. There were standard coach and push-pull cab car variants too. The other double deckers are normal bogie cars (both the earliest and the latest ones) Loco wise, these trains used steam, diesel and electric power throughout the years. There were at least 7 different paints in use, both the basic green design that changed over time, while some were local to various regions.

 

 

 

i have a IC2000 composition https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/IC2000_Z%C3%BCrich_-_Luzern.jpg

 

the one behind the 0 shikansen

 

with cars hobbytrain (kato) and locomotive minitrix RE460 (which i switch regularly with kato re460) and i run it, full speed (14V DC! i know, one days the motor may die)  trough my layout and has probably the smoother ride ever..

And like the realone  in pull and specially push!

Impressive how is smooth and solid..well i suppose Kato cars says a lot ;)