New to japan model train need help

[Knolan007]

hi im new to japan model train

sorry for my bad english im french

 

i just buy my first kato train set the (E233 Tokaido Line/Ueno-Tokyo Line)

i plant to make a 4x6 table, after 50% complete i switch to DCC with

digitrack

 

i have some question

 

1- are the space for the station 23-122 23-123 are ok to clear my untram

line going to unitrack ?

2- ist it more hard to DCC japan kato train/tram versus american kato

train/tram ?

3- is there a better wai to link my unitram to my unitrack ?

4- is the LED Interior Lighting Kit, ver.2 are compatible DCC ?

5- where i can find information about scenery animation and light for dcc

(wiring, equipement need etc...)

6- if i have two starter kit link in DC mode can i plug the 2 kato power

pack or i need only 1 but with feeder (2x kato power pack = fry ?)

7- im a manga fan, i see some train/tram with anime character on the

http://www.1999.co.jp/

web site. are there any other place to find that kind of train/tram ?

8 - is it beter to go dcc sound for train/tram or the Unitrack Analog Sound

Box do the job

9 and last did you have idea for my layout ?

 

here my futur layout (city style)

the red part is rise

green is decending

and yellos is where i put the Overhead Transit Station and the expansion

set

the little black line is where the mountain start. so all the track at the

back of the table is hide.

possible to link to another table for futur expansion.

[IST]

Just my thoughts for some of your questions:

 

2 - Putting a decoder into Kato trams (I mean Portram) is a harder work than the usual, not just simply put a decoder into a socket. If I remember well there is a good description with photos how to do it, but it seemed to me a little bit complicated.

 

3 - Simply just attached them on the same level. It has the same height so there can not be any problem with it. If you are asking about how it will look like then you have to eliminated the differences between the two, but I am afraid there is no official / commercial method for this.

 

Your layout seems to me a little bit crowded, but hey, this is Japan, so it is not so surprising. :-)

One thing I do check before building: can you elevate the black line enough from the station or from the last switch?

[the_weird_one]

With the bits I can help with

 

2. Some Kato Japan trains have drop in decoder boards or in EMU's have decoder chips so they're as simple as the Kato USA trains. Tomix, Greenmax and Microace don't have any DCC ready/friendly trains but hard wiring decoders shouldn't be too big of an issue, and there is a lot of help on these forums for it.

 

The trams are special as they use from memory 3v motors so have to be treated a bit differently but again there is a good tutorial on here somewhere about installing decoders in them - I remember seeing it but can't at this moment find it.

 

7. other people to look at for train's as well as 1999.co.jp are:

http://www.modeltrainplus.net - who is Nartak on these forums

http://www.loco1hobby.net/en/ - who is Keitaro on these forums

I've had great service from both so can highly recommend them

 

There's also

http://amiami.com and https://www.hlj.com which I've used in the past for anime and manga merchandise and can recommend them as well for good service.

 

And your layout looks very busy, but as IST has said thats not unusual for prototypical Japan so its all good. One thing I've learned while being on these forums, is that there's no right or wrong when trying to prototype a Japanese layout as Japan has a prototype for everything you could think of somewhere.

[Knolan007]

 

hi IST

thansk for the info

 

and what you mean by elevate the black line ?

 

the black line represente the end of the mountain.

everything behind(at the top) is hide by it.

the red par is where it rize and green where it drop

ex:the blue line going clokwise will have to pass the switch at the right

after crossing the 3 other line(that part is rise) it will go up to 50-55

mm and go cross the 3 line again(now its over the other line), after it go

down hiden by the mountain and back to station

Hope that help ;)

[HantuBlauLOL]

anime decal-ed trains are usually only produced in limited numbers, you should always watch for the new releases.

 

you can also check

 

http://www.modeltrainplus.net/

http://www.loco1hobby.net/en/

Edited March 15, 2016 by HantuBlauLOL

[cteno4]

Knolan,

 

On the unitram and dcc, since they use the tiny 3v motors others have mentioned, they have a power reduction circuit board in them. There is a chap in Japan that sells a replacement board for these with a decoder on it. The unitrams are very fiddly units that are dedicated to take apart so it will require some patience and care to eve replace the board.

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/6377-kato-unitram-and-dcc/

 

Some threads with internal workings info

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/10038-kato-tram-disassembly/

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/2828-kato-portram-disassembly-pictures/?hl=%2Bportram+%2Bpictures

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/2812-portram-which-isnt-run/

 

The kato portram and unitram track are the same pieces in the us and Japan.

 

Is the whole layout to be for trams? Are any lines for specific other kinds of trains?

 

Usually when you have two loops you power each loop with one DC power pack. If you have a double crossover between the two loops they are insulated in the middle section of the crossover from each other. If you use point to cross over between two loops with different power packs then you need insulated rail joiners between the two points. There can be a second where when you run a train across the joint between the two power packs you get power to the engine from both packs, but if they are not running at top speed this won't burn out your engine you will just see it speed up for a split second.

 

Your plan basically has 5 lines/loops so if you are just using the power routing of the points for power control then you would really need 5 throttles. You could run with fewer if you added a control board with some toggle switches to route power to only tow throttles, but you could only run two trains at once then.

 

Jeff

[Knolan007]

thanks again

 

after 2-3 line is done i switch to dcc 

 

yep 5 line 

green= shinkansen

blue = ?

yellow = my E233 or Hankyu Series 6300

grey = ?

unitram = tram

Edited March 15, 2016 by Knolan007

[katoftw]

hi and welcome

 

if you are going to do dcc.  then you need to wire and build the layout for dcc from the start.  otherwise you will be just tearing up the whole layout to redo the extra wiring required for dcc later on.

 

i think your layout is too busy and things like length of platforms and inclines and declines have not been assessed correctly.  in attempting to maximize what to fit in the layout.  you only have 3 car platforms and inclines and declines outside the max 4% allowed or suggested by manufacturers.

 

commuters cars are 145mm long and shinkansen cars are 160mm long.  kato platform pieces are 248mm long + addition ends.

 

inclines/declines to standard 50mm require 6 lengths of 248mm pieces.  and you need leave a cars length between points 124-140mm.

 

personal opinion is that there is no need for the tram lines to have a connection to the train lines.

Edited March 16, 2016 by katoftw

[Knolan007]

any trick to add more platform for a 6x4 ?

i will probably eliminate the grey line

1 futur update is a train park so if i want to park tram there i need to link it to my unitrack

Edited March 16, 2016 by Knolan007

[cteno4]

Knolan,

 

One question, do you have any track yet and played with trains on them on the table/floor much yet? If so I would encourage you to do this some before diving into a larger track plan. Just playing with some trains and fiddling some some sidings and trying something like an up and over or just loops can really help you figure out what you like and don't like. Some find they hate loops and end up reducing the number of lines in order to get more interesting running patterns, others like having lots of trains running at once. Also helps you also start thinking of scenery and structures. You can start plopping down structures you do have or even just hack up some temp ones from cardboard or the free PDF print buildings. This really helps you figure out how much space you need for it. Some get really frustrated at the scenery step as they found they did not leave enough room for structures and scenery. Also scenery bits like hills and such take up room and mocking it up will again let you know who much you are willing to exaggerate your scenery to fit in the allowed space.

 

Just a though to noodle on.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[IST]

I agree with Jeff. Before you start to construct a layout (it does not matter in which size), it is advised to build the tracks only just to see if it works or not and how will it look like. Grab some tracks and try out your plan! :)

[Knolan007]

 

good point guys

 

is it true that most train will have probleme with curve of 282-249.

315 is the minimum ? or its mosly for the shinkansen train ?

 

i have my kato E233 (starter kit)

i probaly buy this weekend a 2e kato Strater kit (still thinking with one)

and add some Single Track Incline Pier to test

 

what i think i like (still have to test)

it to have the train hide from view in its run (tunnel scenry mountain

etc..)

go up and down (elevation)

run many train together

and dreaming looking at them ;)

 

my first idea was to re-create the Akihabara station

but the probleme is the station is make like a + (train south north and est

west) so its imposible to do that on a 6x4 right ?

 

2e idea for my layou was to make 1/2 city 1/2 rural (if you know the game

persona 4

i try to re-create the Hinaba town)

but a 6x4 is not big enough so i switch to a city layout only

 

in the next week i know if the house im moving this summer have 1 extra

room

if its the case my layout will be back at Akihabara station, but still dont

know how to make the south north and est west fit in a u shape table

extra room = U shape table for my train ;)

[katoftw]

4x6 isn't a lot of space.  especially if trying to fit every element of railroading into it.  make something simple and smaller like a rural or out urban line that runs 1, 2 or 3 car sets.  and this smaller layout wont require dcc.

 

then later when you have more space and money.  then build the larger layout with the skills you have learnt building the smaller 4x6 layout.

[nah00]

good point guys

 

is it true that most train will have probleme with curve of 282-249.

315 is the minimum ? or its mosly for the shinkansen train ?

 

 

Most anything will go around 282 but it won't look right. I only run freight and short DMU/EMUs on 282. Shinkansen looks bad on 315, I run them on 381 and even that looks tight with an E6 or E3 and looks really bad with an E7. If you go with the double track I'd go with the 414/381 or even better the 480/447 but on a 4x6 you're going to have a hard time fitting it on there. Also if you're doing Shinkansen you really need to watch your grades, especially once you start to going 16-car ones (which would be a tail-chaser on your layout). 

 

If you want to do tram track I would use Tomix's track instead. It's easier to work with, has a greater variety of pieces, and is less expensive. 

 

Akihabara would be possible but you wouldn't be able to run much. On a 4x6 you're pretty much limited to loop lines with smaller trains (8 cars is about the most that won't look too bad) so I would say just experiment for now before you commit to a definite plan.

[Welshbloke]

Kato Shinkansen won't go around 282mm curves, 315mm is the minimum. At least that's the case with my 700 Series.

 

Tomix Shinkansen will, but I'm not sure if my 500 Series is an oddity in that respect. It doesn't look right on them but it will go without derailing or making horrible noises.

 

Kato models of "cape gauge" stock (as in your 233 Series) will handle 282mm without complaint, they can go down to 249mm but I'd go for 282 unless space was ridiculously tight as it looks better and doesn't force the driveshaft UJs to work at such sharp angles.

 

Unitrack spacing - the standard track centres (as used on the double track) are 33mm, this widens to 66mm if you want to fit a platform between them. There are a few ways to do this depending on which station you want to use, for example the older island platform set (20-806) is designed to fit inside the V1 passing loop pack, the newer 23-120 City Island Platform is designed to fit inside the V15 pack.

 

Unitram uses narrower track centres, there are adapter pieces to go from that to 33mm. Bear in mind that standard platforms and trams will not go well together as trams are far lower.

 

If you want some variety in your tram fleet then look at the Tomytec range, you buy the bodywork and motors separately, there's no interior or lighting, but it's a good way to get some different liveries.