Tomix Mechanical Semaphore Signals

[NXCALE]

Hi. I found an old topic (around 2011) in the forum about Tomix semaphore signals (link: http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/4411-martijn-meerts/, I guess there are also other ones around). Nevertheless, I just wanted to bring this topic back to talk/know about other member’s new experiences with these items.

 

AThanks!

Edited September 5, 2016 by nxcale

[kvp]

I like them. They are a must for any 1960ies or earlier layout or even for a 1980ies middle of nowhere branchline station.

 

It's relatively easy to build mechanical or electrical interlockings for them, but they are fun in fully manual mode too. (and quite easy to make a mistake while handling them as a simple two train crossing requires 12 steps)

 

The only downsides are the price and that most layouts are too modern for them. The lack of manually switchable light signals are a somewhat larger problem though.

[katoftw]

On a related note.  I noticed the Tomix signals, (from 5 light modern and old semaphore) have 2 lots of wires attached.  Do you wire the signal between the controller and turnout for correct workings?

[mrp]

On a related note.  I noticed the Tomix signals, (from 5 light modern and old semaphore) have 2 lots of wires attached.  Do you wire the signal between the controller and turnout for correct workings?

 

No.

 

The two types work very differently.

 

The modern signals use the built-in sensor track to trigger a timed red-yellow-green sequence when a train passes.  For power, you need to daisy-chain them together from your Tomix Controller’s TCS power output.

 

The old-style mechanical signals contain the equivalent of a Tomix point motor - using a directional DC pulse - so you need to connect them to a standard 5531 Point Control Box and control them manually.  They also have a special mini two-wire connector (the grey cable) to power the LED lighting, which connects to a 5818 lighting breakout cable.

 

I’d really like to play around with those semaphore signals if they weren’t so expensive!  They look great.

 

Here’s an old Tomytec web page with a 5542 and Point Control Switches you can play with.

http://www.tomytec.co.jp/tomix/report/n/nj_081.htm

[katoftw]

Thanks for the info.  Really good info on the semaphores.  Could just use a Y-junction cable with one point switch.  Or the newer point switch that has 2 outputs then.

 

Shame you cannot do the same with the modern ones.

[kvp]

Yes, we really need manual light signals, but the current 2 wire system would only allow two aspects per signal (red/green, red/yellow or yellow/green), while modern ones are up to 5. Using two levers per signal could allow up to 4 though.

 

Personally i would like to see a 6 wire ribbon with 2,3,4 or 5 position levers from Tomix. (or using the tcs output for power and encoding the aspects in the 2 wires with 3 states/wire giving 9 possible aspects per switch)

[NXCALE]

Hi all. For the reader’s reference, Tomix catalogue shows that is also possible to connect the Tomix Automatic Crossing (5555) in series with other Tomix lights signals.

Edited September 5, 2016 by nxcale

[westfalen]

I have a Tomix semaphore signal on a British themed T-TRAK module my late father built.  It is controlled by the TCS swithchkat stationary decoder that controls the turnout for a siding so that the signal clears when the turnout is set for the siding, the power for the signal's lamp comes from the control panel indicator light output of the decoder.

[kvp]

Btw. it's also possible to control the signals with the Tomix TCS automatic conrol unit. For example the two train loop once configurations can have proper signaling.

[NXCALE]

Hi all.

It could be off the topic but I noticed that Kato released an additional item for their HO signals (see attached picture). I am not familiar with the product but I just wanted to mention it.

Edited September 5, 2016 by nxcale

[kvp]

Yes, unlike the fully controllable Tomix formsignals, the Kato ones are semi automatic allowing a normally green signal to be held red. I think this might work with Tomix automatic light signals too if we add a pulldown switch into the optocoupler output of their sensors. (might be doable 100% Tomix with a block isolation switch and some tcs wire)

[katoftw]

You can fully control Tomix 3/4/5 light signals?

[NXCALE]

Hi all. I just wanted to add this information for the people who want to explore about mechanical interlocking for their semaphore signals.

 

No necessarily but usually semaphore signals are associated with this type of interlocking (i.e. mechanical one). There is a website of a company that produces interlocked lever frames for railroad models.

Edited September 5, 2016 by nxcale

[kvp]

Afaik Japanese mechanical interlocking followed pre BR UK practice then switched to US practice somewhere along the way before developing their own standards.

 

Btw. you only need a single 1000-2200 uF cap connected serially to the coils with the other end on ground to switch them with constant 12V DC and ground signals. Pretty simple and cheap.

 

For the rules:

-if the turnouts are not cuttable (spring loaded) then they have to be locked regardless of direction, live frog model ones are not cuttable either

-the example station doesn't have a straight through route but those that do can have all clear distant, entry and exit signals for a direction

-there is no need for separate lock and throw levers, turnouts are just not throwable with green signals (active paths) across them and signals are not throwable against turnouts and other already active signals

 

For the example above you only need 2 entry, 2 exit and 2 turnout levers. (4 exit if both station tracks are bidirectional) Everything else should be calculated from these inputs with mechanical logic.

 

You can fully control Tomix 3/4/5 light signals?

Not with the simple hack i mentioned, only to the level possible with the Kato H0 set. Full manual control would require a new replacement logic board. (i could make one but it's cheaper to make scratchbuilt signals than to hack the factory made ones beyond simple stop control)

[NXCALE]

Thanks for the info. I imagine that I will eventually make some tests using capacitors with turnouts. I haven’t done it yet although I will keep checking about it. Actually, I am really interested about implementing one of these frames but there are still some knowledge gaps to fill up and stuff to test. Also, I would like to include (in my idea of layout) an additional siding or something similar rather just one passing loop. Sometimes I think that perhaps I should just start with a simple loop. Anyway,  time will tell

Edited September 5, 2016 by nxcale

[kvp]

 

For the case of railway models, I consider that locking will not be necessary but still it is a nice thing to have in an interlocked lever frame.

There are levers that allow unlocking, throwing and locking in the same step. This means that you can't start to throw a turnout without unlocking (that's logical) and can't finish it without locking it back (this makes it more simple). There is another thread (actually started by me) about relay interlocking panels that have a few links to a japanese video game about signalling which has a mechanical interlocking example, complete with token exchange. ( http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/10764-japanese-interlocking-systems/ )

[NXCALE]

Yes, I know that thread. It is a good one.

 I have been procrastinating watching those videos but I will try to check them soon.

Also, that reminded me that I had some information to post there (in that thread). I do it now.

[NXCALE]

Hi all. I wanted to add the information below about mechanical levers for the people who are not very familiar with this type of system.

 

As shown in one of the attachments, this lever frame has a mechanical system of tappets (with notches) and bars. These tappets and bars mechanically lock

Edited September 5, 2016 by nxcale

[kvp]

The proper Tomix way to control signals and turnouts:

http://www.tomytec.co.jp/buhinmokei/lineup/mokei/st01.html

[NXCALE]

Thanks for the video, the Tomytec levers are quite nice.

Edited September 5, 2016 by nxcale

[kvp]

The 4 types are a combination of signal/turnout and up/down direction. Imho it's possible to interface the levers with a few types of double throw switches, but of course not as easily as with the tomix ones.

[NXCALE]

Not the most popular of the items but Hobby Search has in stock Point Control Boxes for Signal levers and levers

 

 

Edited September 5, 2016 by nxcale