Transfer table pictures

[cteno4]

thanks Jace!

 

Beautiful art deco design there! love it with factories and things from those times all had inspired interior design for spaces like that and they loved bringing in a lot of natural light in the right places to make it not feel like a dark cavern.

 

i could almost see modeling that as its just such an exceptional space, even though probably nothing like it in japan.

 

jeff

[Jace]

A little more research shows that the Hagalund shop was built in 1913 and was initially used for steam. Here is another shot, complete with catenary on the transfer table!

 

http://www.samlingsportalen.se/getitem-record?PID=SE_SJM_FG_Jvm_KBDB00056

[cteno4]

its beautiful, you can see where the bauhaus movement came from.

 

jeff

[velotrain]

Jeff - it is indeed a very fine space, but I wouldn't say it has any Art Deco elements.  Art Deco was very much concerned with decoration (hence Deco), and I don't see any of that here - it may be elegant, but is mostly a quite serious workspace.  Perhaps telling is that the Wiki list of Art Deco architecture doesn't include any entries at all for Sweden.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Art_Deco_architecture

 

To me it looks more a combination of the early 20th C American concrete daylight factory, with the traditional European arch.  Multiple floors weren't necessary or appropriate.

http://www.architeaching.ro/index.php?option=com_glossary&letter=D&id=752

 

[cteno4]

it has the esthetic of art deco in structural design (art deco is not all just about the decorative elements, those were just the loudest elements) in the curved arches and window and light placement. there are art deco out there with more minimal decorative or that just took bits of art deco and did not take it all. Later things borrowed elements as well from art deco but you would not call them an art deco piece and art deco as well borrowed a lot from other things previous.

 

most of what is art deco and bauhaus and others all came from similar roots breaking out of victorian constraints and minimizing some of the design elements complexity into what is now considered more modern design. things wee breaking loose at the end of the 19th century there.

 

jeff

[velotrain]

While all modernism shared in breaking from the old order (roughly pre-WW1), there were specifically defined periods and styles. 

 

Art Deco is generally defined as starting with a 1925 exposition in Paris, so is unlikely to have influenced a Swedish industrial structure of 1913.

 

Design historians would bristle at your association - however tenuous, of Art Deco and the Bauhaus.

[cteno4]

well my design teachers did not bristle at how influences traveled. its the roots i am talking about.

 

periods like this did not start on a date, thats a silly. influences come from all over the place all the time, they dont live in a vacuum or happen with a bang, they build and evolve. they may come to the public eye at an event that may mark when it was officially out, but that did not just come into being the week before the show. you can see odd influences all over the place in art/design history and was one of the funnest bits i find in it.

 

art deco used curves in spaces when part of the architecture.

 

jeff

[velotrain]

I've had multiple semesters of Architectural History courses in college, and will state that this structure and the Art Deco movement have nothing in common. 

 

The fact that Art Deco frequently included curves in its designs, and this building employs arches in the engineering, does not create a historical link.  When Art Deco incorporated curves they were decorative, and not structural. 

 

http://www.visual-arts-cork.com/history-of-art/art-deco.htm

 

http://www.wentworthstudio.com/historic-styles/art-deco/

 

I'll be happy to consider any evidence to the contrary.

 

It would be interesting to learn who the architect was, and what his influences were.

 

 

 

[cteno4]

charles, 

 

lots of stuff i could say but ill just drop it here. 

 

jeff

[velotrain]

I found a site with some history on the building, including discussion of the architect and the architectural style - here's a link to an English translation.

 

http://tinyurl.com/hwscsks

[kvp]

Interesting! The national romantic style was a form of art noveau and it had an industrial architecture branch for more practical buildings.

 

From wikipedia:

Art Nouveau architecture made use of many technological innovations of the late 19th century, especially the use of exposed iron and large, irregularly shaped pieces of glass for architecture. By the start of World War I, however, the stylised nature of Art Nouveau design—which was expensive to produce—began to be disused in favour of more streamlined, rectilinear modernism, which was cheaper and thought to be more faithful to the plainer industrial aesthetic that became Art Deco.

Edited January 9, 2016 by kvp

[Jace]

A search on 'verkstad' in the SJ archives came up with a raft of additional transfer table pictures:

 

Kalmar: http://www.samlingsportalen.se/getitem-record?PID=SE_SJM_FG_Jvm_KBEB04075

Östersund: http://www.samlingsportalen.se/getitem-record?PID=SE_SJM_FG_Jvm_KBDB14641_03

Stockholm: http://www.samlingsportalen.se/getitem-record?PID=SE_SJM_FG_Jvm_KBBA00392

Malmö: http://www.samlingsportalen.se/getitem-record?PID=SE_SJM_FG_Jvm_KAFP00105

Notviken: http://www.samlingsportalen.se/getitem-record?PID=SE_SJM_FG_Jvm_KAFP00105

Örebro: http://www.samlingsportalen.se/getitem-record?PID=SE_SJM_FG_Jvm_KDAA16465

Tomteboda: http://www.samlingsportalen.se/getitem-record?PID=SE_SJM_FG_Jvm_KDAA14730

[velotrain]

Thanks for these Jace, but somehow the same link / image is attached to both Malmö and Notviken.  I must say that this engine has a beautifully smooth, quite modern skin.

 

I'm curious about the Stockholm example, as the length of the table seems quite short compared to the imagined length of the partially seen steam engines.  However, perhaps there is no trailing axle, in which case even three pairs of drivers might fit - with a lot of overhang.

[Jace]

Operator error...here's the correct link for Notviken: http://www.samlingsportalen.se/getitem-record?PID=SE_SJM_FG_Jvm_KDAE06134

 

The locomotive pictured in Malmö was a diesel prototype built very similar to their electric locomotives at the time (only no side rods). Though I too like its looks, it wasn't a success on the road as there are photos of it three years later on the same transfer table but with heavy fire damage.

 

A lot of the early transfer tables were quite short probably because most of their locomotives were 0-6-0s. They also had a lot of tank engines so you often see very short turntables at their roundhouses (with the pits fully covered of course).

[cteno4]

Has anyone seen a Japanese transfer table that uses the raised wheels on each side of the table and just the depression w.o a pit?

 

I think I've only seen ones with the small wheels under the table.

 

Jeff

[Jace]

Charles,

 

That diesel, it turns out, still exists! After its fire in 1939, it was rebuilt and stayed in service until the 1970's. It was never replicated but none the less it is much more or a success than I thought. Originally it was painted silver, then later maroon and then blue. Some links:

 

http://www.samlingsportalen.se/getitem-record?PID=SE_SJM_FG_Jvm_KBDA00246

 

http://www.svenska-lok.se/motor_solo.php?s=22&lokid=3120

 

http://www.njm.nu/lok/SJNAF10.php

 

Jim

[velotrain]

Great research guy!

[kvp]

Has anyone seen a Japanese transfer table that uses the raised wheels on each side of the table and just the depression w.o a pit?

 

I think I've only seen ones with the small wheels under the table.

 

Jeff

I think the japanese wikipedia article might have one:

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/トラバーサー

 

And this link too:

http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/osushiyo/romen11.html