Completely New/NO idea where to start

[sellskate]

Hi,

 

We are interested in Japan and are learning the language along with our children, and would like to create a Japanese village/train table. My husband and I have never had a real train set so I am pretty much clueless as to where to begin. My mother makes villages (without trains) and my 6 yr old daughter loves to help her make them and set the scene with all the figures and houses. I came across tomytec (that right?) buildings and thought it would be a perfect fit for my daughter for Christmas. She already builds gundams that seem to go together in the same way as the buildings. Problem now is that I have seen the n scale trains and want one to go with the houses.....

 

is there a starter kit of train that does not require any wiring? I have always assumed trains had to have wires run everywhere and therefore thought it was too complicated for us. I have also seen the tram and I am really interested in that as well. Then I saw a youtube video of a bus that appeared to be driving on a little road...with no tracks.. so, are the buses remote controlled? There is just really so/too much to pick from. I have no idea what to buy/where to begin. I see pictures of some peoples buildings and train lit up at night. The kids would love that, but is that a kit you can buy or is it all diy wiring?

 

The website I am looking at is hobbysearch, which seems to have good prices but a lot is sold out (tram) and the shipping is very high. I do realize it is coming from Japan, but are there ever any promotions, or an alternative site that might have cheaper shipping?

 

Sorry for all the questions, I do appreciate anyone who takes the time to answer/steer me in the right direction.

 

Thanks,

kate

[Welshbloke]

Look for a Kato stockist in your country, to begin with. Kato seem to be more enthusiastic exporters than the other brands. There aren't any real disasters amongst Japanese N scale manufacturers but Kato Unitrack seems the easiest to find outside Japan. Also look on ebay - there's a seller named Plaza Japan whose prices are usually very competitive, especially on things like track sections and structures.

 

Kato starter sets require no wiring beyond plugging cables into sockets, and they offer a few options. You can either buy an oval of track with a controller and train, or you can buy the same oval and controller (or the same with a passing loop) minus train. The latter two are known as M1 and M2 respectively. Just add some suitable stock and enjoy. Look up the Kato "Kokuden" three car EMUs to go with an M1 or M2 if you don't like the look of any of the complete starter sets, they're cheap and cheerful in assorted colours.

 

If you want to add more track you can either just buy Unitrack sections or one of the "V" series expansion sets. To give a flavour, V1 is a passing loop, V2 a set of elevated viaduct piers and track sections, all the way up to things like V13 which builds a large elevated double track oval, which I'd suggest looking at if your city diorama is fairly modern as it'll fit in neatly amongst the skyscrapers. There's a matching elevated station which you add track and an island platform to.

[gerryo]

Hi Kate.  My name is Gerry, known on here as gerryo.

 

If I may make a few suggestions, they may be of help.

 

1.  Tell us where you are.  Not specifically, but at least which country and general area.  We are spread out all over the world, so there is little chance of any of us ever meeting.

 

2.  Some of us have used items we need to dispose of.  Some of the people selling these things may just be relatively close to you and the shipping would then be less.

 

3.  It would be easier for us to be of assistance to you if we knew approximately the size of the layout you are planning.  Some of these guys can tell you exactly the number of track pieces you will need for a certain layout.

 

Please don't be shy about asking questions.  That is why these forums exist.  I started out by not asking questions and ended up buying a lot more things that I really needed.

 

gerryo 

[sellskate]

I am in the usa. The table I was hoping to use is 35"x50", but I can get a larger table if need be. I really want one half to be city, and the other half country/farmland. I am not sure how much detail I can get in that size. Im also really wanting the tram..so not sure if that's enough room for tram and train.  I am going to look up what you have suggested. Thank you both for your replies.

[kvp]

Start sets are good and there are tram start sets too. Trackplans can be found at the Kato USA website along with descriptions which expansion sets are needed for each plan. Japanese turnouts are power routing, so if you control them by hand, you only need the single wire from the speed controller to the main loop and the turnouts control which train goes and which stays. This is good if you like most japanese don't have a fixed layout and just put together one on a table every time. Tram tracks come with the same modular system, just make a track and put the buildings next to them and done. It's possible to start there and build up towards a permanent and detailed layout. Tomytec/Tomix, kato and pretty much all brands are compatible for the trains, but you have to decide which track system you use. Both large manufacturers offer mainline and tram tracks.

[Krackel Hopper]

hey hey,

 

Welcome to the forums.  As mentioned, there are a bunch of us here who love answering questions and providing wwwaaayyyy too much information for people new to the hobby.  Prepare to be overwhelmed, but just ask for clarification if it gets too confusing.

 

I'm going to point you in a different direction with the trams.  The Kato Unitram Track is nice but it's expensive and somewhat limiting on the layout you can create.  The style really limits you to a modern, very urban landscape.  If that is what you want, fantastic!

 

Tomix makes a tram system as well.  It may not be quite as fancy of a design, but it is cheaper and allows a lot more room for customization.

 

If you start with the Wide Tram Starter Set (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10136551) you'll have a 1ft x 2ft loop with proper power pack.  From there you can buy extra track pieces.  You could also just use tram track pieces on the city side and switch to Tomix Fine Track for your "country" side of the layout.

 

This is one of my favorite pictures of what you can do with Tomix tram tracks that you'd never be able to do with the Kato Unitram set.

 

 

If you are indeed interested.  Tomix Wide Tram Track is also designed to nest with the Tomix Bus System.  You could have an operational bus driving right along side with your trams.

 

Somewhere on the forums if a discussion of a bunch of small (2ftx4ft) layouts using the tram and bus systems.

 

Tomix will provide a lot more flexibility and be a lot cheaper up front.  The trade off is that it requires more scenery work to get it looking really good like in the picture above.  I personally think it works better for smaller layouts like the size you are talking about.

 

If you want to know more about the Tomix Wide Tram System just ask and a number of us can tell you a lot about it.  If you prefer the look of the modern urban double track of Kato that certainly works too.  There are a number of people on here with information on that as well.

 

Final thing to keep in mind.  No matter what track you go with, you can use trams/trains from any of the manufacturers.  For actual trams look at Tomix (tomytec), Kato & Modemo.  They all have some very cool trams.

[JR 500系]

Hi Kate:

 

First of, welcome to the world of hobby trains! I started not too long ago too and there is just way much information to slowly pick up, and here is a good portal for that!  :)

 

As Krackel Hopper has mentioned, if you like moving bus system (yes that's the system where you saw the bus moving on the roads without tracks. They are not remote controlled but they have a mini motor and battery operated and the magnet below their front wheels follow a thin wire below the roads) then Tomix tram tracks would be the one to go for, as they can connect nicely with the moving bus tracks.

 

 

More information can be found here, but in Japanese (good chance to practice the language with your kids!) : http://www.tomytec.co.jp/diocolle/lineup/soko/soko001.html

 

As for the trams, here is a nice starter set from Tomix: http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10136551

 

As for the trams, they are a wide range of them from Kato, Tomix, Modemo or Tomytec, and they all run on the tracks with no issues.  

 

As for other suppliers, please check out the retailers in the retailers section. There are a couple of nice retailers that will ship to US like Loco1 (http://www.loco1hobby.net/en/) and Model Train Plus (http://www.modeltrainplus.net/) other than HS. They are all helpful to assist you and will ship to US.

 

Hoped that helps! Have Fun!

[Krackel Hopper]

hey hey,

 

Jumping back in here. Getting past track to a few of your other questions.

 

Lighting - If you are not comfortable doing any wiring yourself there are some options. Tomytec has a number of small LED light kits for inside buildings, spotlights on buildings and the like. These are just 6 individual LEDs that plug into a battery box with a switch. See below for a couple links. Just search Tomytec LED to see more.

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10300889

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10296038

 

Woodland Scenics also just released a lighting system. It works basically the same but allows you to string multiple lights all back to one switch.. Which is a plug instead of battery. It is a neat system, but more expensive. If you wanted lots of lights I would suggest this over having a dozen Tomytec battery packs on the layout.

http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/category/JustPlugLightingSystem

 

Here's a great thread by user Tosaden showing how you can mix Tomix tram track with regular track. A much smaller layout than the size you mention but gives a nice idea.

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/2787-my-n-micro-layout/

 

Here's a cool picture of a small layout using both Tomix track and the moving bus system.

 

Another forum member.. KenS posted a tram/bus coffee table designs a few years back. Shows just how well the bus and tram system work together.

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/4277-an-urban-trambus-coffee-table-layout/

 

Once you decide on a track system you can start designing your layout. Be it Tomix or Kato, these forums will have lots of ideas and suggestions for you.

[sellskate]

Sugoi! Wow. Thanks for all the replies. I love the moving bus, that's awesome. That's what I want to go with along with the tram. The kids will be amazed by that for sure. I have never been on a forum with such informative people. The links and pics are great. I cannot believe how much detail was achieved in that micro layout. And thank you for the lighting links...exactly what I need. I have been looking at the 1999 site but they have so much it's hard to sift through, especially when I'm not sure what I need.

So I think I like the tomix stuff. I'm going to search now, but I'm assuming for the bus I will need a starter set of that as well.

 

Also....trains and tram work on the same track? Or if I wanted to do a train I would need actual rails too..? Sorry if this has already been clarified. Maybe I would like the tram/bus in city, and train going around entire layout. I was hoping to do some sort of festival and/or temple. I like the look of hills in the country. I need to browse more photos for ideas.

[katoftw]

Do you have any example pictures of the villages that get made?

[kvp]

 

Also....trains and tram work on the same track? Or if I wanted to do a train I would need actual rails too..? Sorry if this has already been clarified. 

More or less. The tram track curves are too sharp for most trains. For trams the common minimum is at 140 mm (Tomix C140), while for trains this is 280 mm (C280). The Tomix tram turnouts are 140 mm, while normal train ones are at or above 280 mm. You can mix trams and trains as long as they have their minimum radius. (trams can run on normal tracks and some shorter Tomytec trains can run on tram curves) There are tram curves below 140 mm, but those are too sharp even for some trams, so it's better to avoid them.

 

If you like Tomix, then you can start with a Tomix starter set, both for trains, trams and buses. Then maybe get a few Tomytec trams and a few extra tracks. The normal train startset oval with a station set allows the tram set to fit into the center, while the bus startset can be extended to fit around the tram set, forming a street with bus-tram layout. I would expand the outer train oval to be double track too (with a 4 track station), which would allow 2 trains out of 4 to run, with 2 buses and 2 trams. This would need 4 speed controllers and pretty much no other wiring. Or course you can go smaller and build a single track main, bus and tram layout first.

 

I would say experiment first on a table and only start gluing down things after some through testing (by running trains) with various track arrangements and after you found the one you really like.

[Takahama Trainwatcher]

I find that the paper catalogues (I have Kato and Tomix catalogues) are useful for getting an overview of what is available, easier than going through websites. You can learn a lot with them.

http://www.modeltrainplus.net/products/kato-25-000-model-railroad-catalog-2015

http://www.modeltrainplus.net/products/tomix-7036-tomix-guide-2014-2015-product-catalog

http://www.loco1hobby.net/en/199-books-and-dvds

[cteno4]

Kate,

 

You might take a look at our club's website, there are a number of articles on folks doing small layouts in different ways that may give you some ideas.

 

http://japanrailmodelers.org/pages/otherlayouts.html

 

If space is limited you might think of a sections/modular system so you could pull the layout apart and display modules on a book shelf when not in use and just set up on the floor or table when playing with it. Also makes it so you can more easily take it places to show off! Modular means you set a standard of where the tracks are on each module and usually always in the same place. This way you can change the modules around to change the scene. Clubs do this so they can easily all pop their modules together. Sectional is where you lay out a more wandering track plan and you just break it up to fit onto module sections, but usually then there is only one way the modules fit together. Each way you can expand easily if you want to with time or swap out modules. Also doing one module at a time is a nice small project that you get results fast with rather than tackling a larger scenery project (but it sounds like you have some experience in this already). It also lets you learn on a small but fast and mistakes are small scale and can quickly get redone or even tossed.

 

Also papercraft models are another way to make structures, a number of free ones on the web and some reasonably priced you can print out yourself as well. This thread has a lot of info and links:

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/5438-papercraft-models/?hl=papercraft

 

If you are really into these I have some free ones from the web (links go dead over the years) I can get to you, just pm me.

 

Sankei also makes very nice lasercut chipboard models, but the are not cheap,mbut a nice alternative to all plastic!

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/search?typ1_c=104&cat=&state=&sold=0&sortid=0&searchkey=Sankei+150

 

Also have you seen the Btrain shorties? These are little models that are n scale but squished to about 40% the normal length. They are very cute and fun. The pop together like the gundam kits and you can buy motor mechs and good metal wheel sets (they come with display plastic ones that don't run well). They are a bit cheaper once you have tricked them out to running trains than the normal sets. They work well in very small layouts with a lot of curves as on curves you don't notice their shortness as much and they take sharper curves more gracefully than full lenght cars. You can also shrink scenes as well to go with the shorter trains and have fun with the mind's eye. They also have street cars to make a tiny layout not feel quite as small!

 

http://japanrailmodelers.org/pages/modelingjapan/btrainshorty-pt1.html

 

Modeltrainplus has some on great sale

 

http://www.modeltrainplus.net/collections/super-sale?page=1

 

Post some pict of the villages, always great to see how and what folks model! Keep us posted on what you are doing!

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[sellskate]

I appreciate everyone's advice so much. Thank you. Wow, I had no idea bandai had those little trains! A naruto one! Those are awesome. We actually do the paper craft things for the kids gundams. We have a few skyscrapers going, but plan to do a whole city.

My mother makes villages, so I don't have too much experience there aside from what she tells me she does. I have made some scenery for miniatures and miniature bases but that's about it. I have a lot of ideas for scenery, but it seems like it's going to get expensive quick.

 

I do think I will get some of those paper catalogues to have on hand though.

I'm going to check out the links you have all suggested now.

[cteno4]

Kate,

 

Great to hear you do the papercraft already! I'll pm you with a link for a bunch of the free ones I've collected. Great way to start and then add in the more expensive stuff if you stay with it.

 

The btrains are very cute. Many more at hobby search, Nariichi just had a few on great sale there at Modeltrainplus.

 

Works out like $20-25 for a 4 car set, $20 or so for the motor, and $2-3 per car for the metal wheels, and a metal pantograph like $2-3. So $50-55 for a fully tricked out and operating 4 car train. Not bad, bit less than the traditional ready to run ones. The assembly is much like the gundams with very precise moulding so and snap fitting where there is a 3 stage fit of good pilot to get part fitted,mthen press fit and a final push to the fully locked position.

 

Tomytec also has inexpensive display models at full size that you can do the same thing of adding motor mech and wheels and details. Works out a tad cheaper than a ready to run model and some interesting 1-3 car trains you won't find elsewhere. Don't have to assemble them like the btrains.

 

Catalogs are great for seeing all that has been done, but unfortunately only a fraction of them are ever available, hobby search website is the best place to get an idea of what is generally available, but organized horridly. Unfortunately the catalogs cost as much to ship SAL (two week airmail cheaper shipping) as the catalogs do to the U.S.! No one imports them anymore in bulk to the U.S. Unfortunately. You can find some in the U.S. Selling theirs on ebay with cheaper shipping of last year's catalog. There are ALOT of Japanese trains made!

 

Cheers

 

Jeff