JR 205 ex Nambu Line 南武線 In Indonesia

[SuRoNeFu 25-501]

Just sounds like the substations are too far apart.  Creating a large load on each substation.

Unfortunately - yes, the substations are too far. From Manggarai to Bogor (I excluded the Manggarai to Jakarta Kota section in this case), the substations are:

 

1. Manggarai Substation (located next to the current entrance of Manggarai station)

2. Kalibata Substation (located a few meters to the north of Duren Kalibata station)

3. Pasar Minggu Substation (positioned right on the east side of Pasar Minggu station)

4. Tanjung Barat Substation (located to the south of Tanjung Barat station)

5. Lenteng Agung Substation (positioned near the parking lot of Lenteng Agung station)

6. Universitas Indonesia Substation (positioned near the south end of Universitas Indonesia station)

7. Depok Substation (located between the south end of Depok station and the switch that leads into Depok EMU depot)

8. Citayam Substation (positioned somewhere around Citayam Station)

9. Bojonggede Substation (positioned right on the east side of Bojongggede Station)

10. Cilebut Substation (located somewhere around Cilebut Station - AFAIK it was located on the east side)

11. Bogor Substation (AFAIK it is located on the north end of station, but I can't remember it's exact position)

 

And the distance is way too far for a busy electrified railway ( -_-)"ﾔﾚﾔﾚ

 

Hmm... I have heard before of problems when trains were using more electric current than substations could provide, but does that relate to the fact that it is 'only' 1.5 kV? In the Netherlands we also use 1.5 kV and there are frequent train services (busiest parts every ~5 minutes a train per direction) with train lengths up to 12 cars. Rather, don't they also do so in Japan? Just look at the Yamanote Line (11 cars) that is electrified with 1.5 kV and runs with 2.5 minute headways during rush hours. I'm no expert in this field, but it doesn't make sense to me that 1.5kV could be such a limiter.

While the electrification system is 1.5kV DC, the same with your country (thanks to the efforts done by Dutch colonials in the late 1910s to early 1920s, they successfully made Indonesia became the first country in South East Asia to have electrified railway line), it doesn't mean that the voltage becomes the limiter. From my personal (and simple) analysis, it seems that some of the substations owned by PT Kereta Api Indonesia are not designed to handle large amount of traffic from the beginning, partly caused by the unavailability of land for expanding the substation (oh God, we need to move further amount of people from Jakarta!), as well as other reasons that I can't explain here...

[HantuBlauLOL]

Jabodetabek area got blackouts very often back then..

 

The current supplying quality won't be really different with the supply for trains.

Edited September 20, 2015 by HantuBlauLOL

[SuRoNeFu 25-501]

Jabodetabek area got blackouts very often back then..

 

The current supplying quality won't be really different with the supply for trains.

No difference, since the electricity company is often "playing" with the customers...

[Ochanomizu]

...  Btw. the same problem happened with the first 101 series train on the yamanote line and the quick solution was to limit the current draw of the test train, which is limited the acceleration but allowed time for upgrading the line ...

 

Hello Mr kvp,

 

I am familiar with the initial problems of 101系 motor overheating due to startup current.  It is not because of the substation.  However, the substation problem on the Yamanote line is of interest to me.  Could you please provide your source?

[kvp]

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/国鉄101系電車

(right above the motor overheating issue, there is a description of the catenary overload problems) The issue was not the substations but the current carrying capacity of the overhead catenary, which can be overcome by using heavier wire with a larger contact surface, larger cross section and more heat buffer capacity.

 

On the indonesian system, there is no need for new substations, only the power output of the current ones have to be increased (with a possible capacity increase on the base high voltage AC network) and possibly higher capacity wires to carry this increased power.

[SuRoNeFu 25-501]

On the indonesian system, there is no need for new substations, only the power output of the current ones have to be increased (with a possible capacity increase on the base high voltage AC network) and possibly higher capacity wires to carry this increased power.

I agree with your opinion - the national power company of Indonesia (PT. Perusahaan Listrik Negara) should increase the power output to cope with the rapid increase of train traffic, because the amount of power output that currently supplied by the company is still not enough and unstable (which is explicitly described with the large number of traffic disruptions due to blackout). But thank god that things are now much better than in the past...

 

Well, let's return back to the topic about former Nambu Line 205 series trains in Indonesia.

[SuRoNeFu 25-501]

According to the latest information that I got from my friend, the ship that carries NaHa 10F (205-131F), NaHa 42F (205-26F), NaHa 13F (134F) and NaHa 37F (205-21F) would arrive at Jakarta's Tanjung Priok port in this weekend.

 

On the other hand, NaHa 11F (205-132F) was temporarily removed from Manggarai - Duri feeder service due to air conditioning problem. I think that the train has been returned into service, since the problem is not too serious...

[SuRoNeFu 25-501]

 

 

 

 

NaHa 40F underwent trial run on today. Shot at Manggarai Station

[Ochanomizu]

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/国鉄101系電車

(right above the motor overheating issue, there is a description of the catenary overload problems) The issue was not the substations but the current carrying capacity of the overhead catenary, which can be overcome by using heavier wire with a larger contact surface, larger cross section and more heat buffer capacity.

Hello Mr kvp,

 

Thank you for your prompt reply.  I am surprised that such an issue had not been considered during the vehicle design stage.  5,600A is considerable current.

[Ochanomizu]

Hello,

 

Do they keep the same car numbers in Indonesia?  From the photos it appears that the designation has been removed, but not the car numbers.

[SuRoNeFu 25-501]

They keep the original number, but for internal purpose. Because the Ministry of Transportation does not allows the original number to be kept - instead, the trains are must using the number format that regulated by the ministry, which is:

 

K1 x yy zzz

 

K = car

1 = class (1 = 1st class / Executive, 2 = 2nd class / Business, 3 = 3rd class / Economy)

x = traction mode (0 = unpowered, 1 = EMU, 2 = hydraulic-transmission DMU, 3 = electric-transmission DMU)

yy = year of operation (counted from the year when it starts to operate in Indonesia)

zzz = number

 

So it would be written like this:

 

K1 1 14 01

 

But usually, I added the original number (in my personal data) to make it clearer, which becomes:

 

K1 1 14 01 -> KuHa 205-144

 

Really, it makes things become not so simple -_-

[HantuBlauLOL]

2 sets collided in Juanda station today.

 

http://dlvr.it/CF2d0m

Edited September 23, 2015 by HantuBlauLOL

[katoftw]

My kids like to do that too when I get new train sets. :cussing:

[SuRoNeFu 25-501]

Due to the collision that happened yesterday, it is likely that 4 former Nambu Line 205 series trainsets would be deployed much earlier than the expected (of course deployed as 12-car trainset), to replace the damaged trains (HaE 15F / 205-123F and HaE 32F / 205-54F).

 

 

Unfortunately the accident was caused by human error...

 

[Fasubkhanali (Ali)]

27 September 2015.

NaHa H10 (205-131F), H13 (205-134F), H37 (205-21F) dan H42 (205-26F)

 

 

[SuRoNeFu 25-501]

It seems that the 12-car trial formation was halted (partly due to the effect of collision at Juanda station), so the company decided to reform the 12-car trains into 10-car trains. This is done by removing the driving cars of one half of the 12-car set, then mixing the intermediate cars into the other half.

 

However, another problem arose again:

 

Since all of the intermediate cars are motor cars, it is really producing large amount of power (by the way the 8M2T formation is also formerly used by the former Eidan 5000 series and Toyo Rapid 1000 series trains). And yes, all of MoHa 204 cars are equipped with motor generator for supplying auxiliary power, so there is an excessive power consumption that caused the overhead line to be unstable (again!)...

 

Well, the problem is very complicated...

[katoftw]

Since all of the intermediate cars are motor cars, it is really producing large amount of power (by the way the 8M2T formation is also formerly used by the former Eidan 5000 series and Toyo Rapid 1000 series trains). And yes, all of MoHa 204 cars are equipped with motor generator for supplying auxiliary power, so there is an excessive power consumption that caused the overhead line to be unstable (again!)...

Same number of motor cars pushing less weight.  The load draw should be less, not more.

Edited October 4, 2015 by katoftw

[SuRoNeFu 25-501]

Same number of motor cars pushing less weight.  The load draw should be less, not more.

Actually, it would be like that. But somehow the electricity problem is really serious...

[katoftw]

even though the draw is less, it still can be past the limit required.

[SuRoNeFu 25-501]

even though the draw is less, it still can be past the limit required.

That's true. Somehow it could result in a well-beyond-tolerance instability, but I hope that the national power company would increase the amount of electricity supply for the rail lines...

[SuRoNeFu 25-501]

It seems that strange thing has been happened again:

 

Former NaHa 7 and NaHa 8 trainsets that temporarily mixed into one 10-car trainset (with the intermediate cars of NaHa 8 being inserted into NaHa 7) has been reformed once again, this time into a 6 + 4 10-car trainset (which is ironically having same configuration with some of Chuo Rapid Line's 201 series EMUs that designed to enter Ome Line and Itsukaichi Line). The formation itself is:

 

Jakarta Kota <- KuHa 205 (1) - MoHa 205 (2) - MoHa 204 (3) - MoHa 205 (4) - MoHa 204 (5) - KuHa 204 (6) - KuHa 205 (7) - MoHa 205 (8) - MoHa 204 (9) - KuHa 204 (10) -> Bogor

 

() means car position number, not the actual number of each units

[SuRoNeFu 25-501]

With the arrival of NaHa 12, NaHa 34 and NaHa 39 at Tanjung Priok seaport, the shipment of Nambu Line's 205 series trains to Indonesia has been completed.

[SuRoNeFu 25-501]

NaHa 12 has been recolored into the normal KAI Commuter Jabodetabek colors, unlike other former Nambu Line 205 series trains that still retained its original Nambu Line colors (even with the front face is recolored into red).

 

But strangely, the doors are still not receiving side bands:

 

 

(photo courtesy Satoshi Takagi)

 

The train also ready to receive Ministry of Transportation's registration numbers, where (thankfully!) it would include the year when the train was built (although the year itself is actually having some incorrect data - former Yamanote Line trains that ordered by JNR during its last years should have 1985 or 1986 being printed in the registration number box, not 1989 or even 1990)

Edited January 23, 2016 by SuRoNeFu 25-501

[SuRoNeFu 25-501]

All of former Nambu Line 205 series trainsets has entered the service, as of February 11th, 2016.

 

Several informations regarding the former Nambu Line 205 series trains:

 

1. Trains that operated as 10-car formation (6 + 4) are returned back into the planned 12-car trains (6 + 6)

2. The colors on trains that still uses Nambu Line color bands (even after the front end part was recolored into red) would be changed into the (usual) standard colors of KAI Commuter Jabodetabek. Currently, NaHa 11 trainset has received the recoloring work, and other trains would receive it one by one

3. Some of 12-car trains are deployed on Jakarta Kota to Bekasi services (in addition to the Jakarta Kota to Bogor services) to increase the line's capacity while still facing the unability to increase the number of commuter services on Bekasi Line (which is currently still facing the track usage problem, where Bekasi Line commuter trains are frequently required to enter siding tracks due to being taken over by long-distance express trains heading to and from Bandung, Cirebon, Purwokerto, Semarang, Yogyakarta, Surabaya, Solo, and so on).

Edited February 13, 2016 by SuRoNeFu 25-501