Welded rail trains

[velotrain]

I got interested in these when I saw a photo of a short one bracketed by Meitetsu Deki 600's.  Someone mentioned that Meitetsu liked to do things their own way, and that seems to be the case here.  Most systems appear to use standard (?) flatcars equipped with racks for 2-3 layers of rail, and often a more robust containment structure every X cars. 

 

 

 

 

Meitetsu seems standardized on a 4-car set (unless they only have the one), with small cranes mounted on each car.  The two middle cars have two cranes, while the end cars have one crane at the "middle" end, and what looks like a toolbox at the other end.  This may also protect the engine should the rail slide excessively within the containment structure.   The only restraints for the rails are on the end cars, although the crane posts and their cable tie-downs may serve as a back-up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One thing that surprises me about the Meitetsu cars is that they appear to have a straight deck, with no reinforcing under the crane section(s).  I'm curious if anyone knows what the fabric "shrouds" on the cranes are?  Do these simply provide some weather protection to the operating elements while the cars are in transit?  When unloading the rail, do all of the cranes somehow turn and lower the rail in unison?

Or - is an operator required at each crane?  There's likely a video out there, but I haven't come across it yet.

 

I found one image of a car somewhat similar to the Meitetsu ones, but it only has a single, heavier-looking crane mounted mid-car and I'm guessing that it's a MOW car, and carries loads far heavier than rail due to the heavy duty coil suspension and the structural reinforcement under the crane.  It also looks like the deck floats on top of the chassis, no doubt with it's own suspension system - possibly suggesting that they want the load (and/or the crane) to experience minimal agitation.  The extensive crane operational equipment - while likely more rugged and complex, might suggest the reason for the covering on the Meitetsu cars.

 

 

 

 

It looks like on the other systems, a tracked crane may be carried on the train, as I've seen a car at the end of the train with hinged ramps on it.  However, in the few images I've seen of this, that car has been empty.  With this system, does the crane start unloading a piece of rail at one end of the train and work its way to the other end?

These trains are always substantially longer than the Meitetsu ones.

 

 

 

 

The non- Meitetsu cars should be relatively easy to model - especially if you have some means of casting / building the racks quickly, but I'm wondering if anyone has ever modeled the Meitetsu cars - almost certainly scratch building, although likely using a manufactured flat car.  I don't think I've noticed any N-scale cranes that would work, but there might be something available in the realm of ship modeling.  I'm fairly sure I've seen something similar, but it might have been to a larger scale.

 

 

 

 

[katoftw]

I'm curious if anyone knows what the fabric "shrouds" on the cranes are?  Do these simply provide some weather protection to the operating elements while the cars are in transit?  When unloading the rail, do all of the cranes somehow turn and lower the rail in unison?

Yes the shrouds are to protect the electrics in the winches.

 

Yes the cranes rotate and lower the track piece in unisen.

 

Chiki 6000?

[velotrain]

Thanks for the confirmation kato, but I'm wondering if perhaps the Chiki 6000 is more from the past.

 

I can find images of it, but when I search for welded rail cars, other types are found.

[velotrain]

Well - I found out what the hinged ramps are actually for.

 

 

 

 

Although - based on this photo I don't see the need for the hinged portion of the guide chute.

Unless . . . it's to let the end of each rail section fall to the ground a bit more softly . . . 

 

Does anyone know why some of the end cars have a cab and others don't?

Just a refined version of the earlier car?

 

 

 

And as least one person has modeled a welded rail train.

 

Are the red disks on the rear purely a visual warning - or do they contain electronics?

 

 

 

 

[kvp]

The small crane variant is similar to the ones used in the past by JNR for shorter rails and still in use in Europe by tram operators. The end offloading cars are for longer rails and they allow unloading between the tracks or more closely to the running rail and not limited by rail length, since additional flatcars can be added in the middle. The ramp is good to make sure the new rails clear the couplers on the car and fall where they are meant to be and come handly when the car is trying to pick up any old welded rails.

 

The cab car is exactly just that, a control cab. It can be a self propelled unit or the control cab for a locomotive on the other end.

 

The red disks are standard japanese end of train markers and most of them are just reflective in the dark. They can be seen on the ends of newly delivered emu-s, freight trains and almost anything that doesn't have built in end of train lights. Rarely they are supplemented with battery powered red lights.

[cteno4]

There is a flexible n scale code 55 plastic rail you can get to make a welded rail train like thsi that will flex around curves.

 

Jeff

[velotrain]

I've found a decent number of photos of the Meitetsu welded rail trains, but none showing details of the cars.  Kato suggested the Chiki 6000 as the "traditional" welded rail car, and I'm wondering if there is a known designation for the Meitetsu car?

 

I usually translate my searches into kanji, but not knowing what words the Japanese use for certain things, I may well use the wrong English terms.  Two specific questions:

 

- what term do the Japanese use for MOW equipment?

 

- do the Japanese refer to freight and MOW cars as cars, wagons, or something else?

 

Is anyone aware of a Japanese-English railroad term cross-reference site?

[katoftw]

A lot of the rail wagons were retooled old skool JNR freight wagons.  So Koki 5500s where turned into Tiki 5500s etc.

 

But there is numerous Chiki/Tiki 5000s, 5200s, 5500s, 6000s and more all Floating around Japan.

Edited August 12, 2015 by katoftw

[velotrain]

I found a site with some images of the earlier Meitetsu welded rail train, showing engine ED33 before the 1992 life extension refurbishment - "Meitetsu Blue" repaint producing it reborn as a Deki 600.

 

 

http://sirius501.blog68.fc2.com/blog-entry-1024.html

[velotrain]

I noticed that the Meitetsu welded rail train seemed to spend a lot of time hanging out at Oe station in Nagoya, and with the aid of streetview I just found out why.

 

 

 

[cteno4]

Another cool mow scene to pretty easily model! Very cool.

 

Jeff

[velotrain]

Jeff - I was thinking it would be way more cool if the rail train was parked there and loading was in progress - the small cranes on the rail cars would be swung out of harm's way during this operation.

 

 

While looking into the Meitetsu's Oe station and depot in Nagoya, I saw a "photo" (it looked doctored - that asphalt is much too smooth, even for Japan  ;-) of what I initially mistook as a slight rerouting and new platforms for the Chikkō Line - although this would isolate it from the other platforms at Oe.  I also had no idea why this dock line suddenly required multi-track status.  I then noticed in a related rendering that the station was a double dead-end, and realized it was to be a future training facility - http://www.yahagi.co.jp/group/center/index.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

Both the "photo" and the rendering show two large gantry cranes on the depot side, and I had seen these previously in satellite and street views of the depot adjacent to the station.  There are also many sections of welded rail stored here, but I don't know how they're brought here and then transferred to the rail train loading area farther down this track - just past the station in the background. 

 

It's conceivable that the rail train is sometimes brought to this area for loading, but there seems to be some short ROW equipment permanently stored here.  Also - these large cranes appear much more likely to do damage to the rail cars during loading, so I doubt that they are involved in direct loading.  I'm guessing that a periodic restocking is done of the smaller rail stack at the rail train loading cranes, but have no idea of what the mechanics of this are.  This track is not electrified, so there must be an assigned depot diesel that is used to access it, and strong enough to haul the loaded rail train.

 

 

 

 

I still haven't come across any photos or video of the Meitetsu welded rail cars "in action", so if anyone is perhaps aware of a blog containing such material, please let me know.  I also welcome any theories (or even definitive knowledge  ;-) on initial rail transfer at the Oe site - before it gets to the rail train dedicated loader.

 

 

One more question about this train - I assume the rectangle under the hood on this end car is a small generator to power the cranes, as I can see a cable exiting through the floor?

 

 

[cteno4]

So I ordered some of the flexible welded rail and now have 50' of it! Actually quite nice and comes with the racks to stack it as well. Looks like it will work well for a mow train likemthis. Big thing will be weighing the cars down so they can bend the rails easily and not get derailed.

 

http://www.nscalekits.co.uk/welded_rail.html

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[katoftw]

I've seen some N scale Japanese ones on yahoo.  Look to be converted from regular container wagons, just like in real life.

Edited August 26, 2015 by katoftw

[cteno4]

Yes the above rail and racks could easily do this with container cars or mow wagons built as above.

 

Jeff

[velotrain]

I couldn't find any HO flat cars at all close to the ones Meitetsu uses, so I have four Koki104's on the way to me.  I chose them mostly as they look close to the Meitetsu blue, and they were currently available.  I'll almost feel guilty putting a deck over all that fine piping.

 

Speaking of the deck, it looks like Meitetsu uses flat steel plate, while I would have thought this was a perfect application for safety tread steel - is that not used on Japanese railways?

 

 

 

 

Bashing the cranes will be the most difficult part, and I've been studying photos trying to break them down into component elements.  I'll likely depict the cars empty, as that's how most photos show them.

 

I found this image, and wondered if it's a Meitetsu or general railfan magazine?

 

 

[bikkuri bahn]

Perhaps in the fwiw department, but earlier this month I happened to see a MOW crew moving some 30 meter sections of rail at a MOW yard at Misaki Koen station on the Nankai main line. Power was provided by a locomotive tractor.

 

Edited August 27, 2015 by bikkuri bahn

[cteno4]

Very nice, thanks.

 

How many booms were being used to lift these lengths? These are just like the nice green max mow cars. Mow loco is close to the arunine unit with the large boom on the back.

 

I guess on these small cars they just do one layer of track and not rack it up.

 

Jeff

[bikkuri bahn]

How many booms were being used to lift these lengths?

 

Two booms. I didn't include the picture of both working in concert. I will post later.

 

*here they are:

 

Edited August 28, 2015 by bikkuri bahn

[katoftw]

Your wish is granted!

 

[velotrain]

^{Thanks much Katoftw - what train is that and who produces it?}

^{A search at HS didn't locate it.}

[katoftw]

Oops a link would have been useful:- http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10358777

Edited November 18, 2015 by katoftw

[Atobit]

So I ordered some of the flexible welded rail and now have 50' of it! Actually quite nice and comes with the racks to stack it as well. Looks like it will work well for a mow train likemthis. Big thing will be weighing the cars down so they can bend the rails easily and not get derailed.

 

http://www.nscalekits.co.uk/welded_rail.html

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

Would this company ship their goods to Japan? Or where to find some in Japan?

 

Should be great with the kit showed by Katoftw.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cteno4]

I would assume so, they are in the UK and shipped to the US. Drop them an email. I expect they will want paypal. The rail looks nice.

 

Jeff

[cteno4]

Nice rail car kit, but it appears you need to also add kokis to it as well! Ouch on the price! Especially after purchasing 11 kokis for it. Wish they had better pictures and description, a bit lost in auto translation there.

 

Jeff