Details of Technology of Gauge Changing for Mini Shinkansen

[Robert46]

Hi guys,

 

Allow me to post a new topic with the above subject..

 

I have read on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_gauge#Japan

 

That the mini shinkansen using gauge changing technology. But there is no details explanation of it.

 

My curiousity is how the E3 or E6 proceeding the gauge changing and how, what or where does the process happen?

 

All detailed informations containing web links, pictures or videos will be much appreciated. Thanks a lot! :)

[katoftw]

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/8597-free-gauge-train-in-kumamoto/?hl=%2Bgauge+%2Bchange+%2Btrain&do=findComment&comment=95128

[ToniBabelony]

There are no commercially operated gauge changing trains in Japan. All Shinkansen, including Mini-Shinkansen, are 1,435mm gauge.

[HantuBlauLOL]

Mini shinkansens use regauged 1067mm rails.

[NuclearErick]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_Change_Train

 

First Generation

Second Generation

Third and Corrent Generation

 

How works

 

but Japan is not the only country to have or developing the Free Gauge or Gauge Change system

[Robert46]

Hi All,

 

Many thanks for your help providing the above informations.. Thanks Kato and Nuclear for giving me the links and videos.. Much appreciated! :)

 

I will watch the videos later..

 

My understanding is that since the mini shinkansen also operating in Narrow Gauge 1067mm rails, while the normal shinkansen gauge is 1,435mm.. then when the mini shinkansen proceed gauge changing there should be "special process" to convert the narrow to standard gauge or vice versa..

 

I was thinking that there should be a building like depo in Spain just like in the wikipedia link http://en.wikipedia....ge_Change_Train

 

Once I watched the video hopefully I get better understanding.. Thanks guys. :) Cheers..

 

Any additional information are still welcome..

[NuclearErick]

My understanding is that since the mini shinkansen also operating in Narrow Gauge 1067mm rails, while the normal shinkansen gauge is 1,435mm.. then when the mini shinkansen proceed gauge changing there should be "special process" to convert the narrow to standard gauge or vice versa..

 

No, there is no such process

 

*The Free Gauge train is a testing and current developing tecnologic to convert 1435mm to 1067mm and vice versa, is not in operational revenue service anywhere in Japan maybe we will see in the Tsuruga-Osaka, Okayama-Shikoku lines or Nagasaki Section not sure if will be Full line or FGT service

 

*Now the Mini-Shinkansen is called Mini because:

 

- Is not a exclusive dedicade line

- They do have grade-crossings

- Speed is 130km/h max like the 1067mm trains

- Cars is smaller in comparission with the "Full" Shinkansen Trains

ex: E6 is narrow body (2,945m, E5 series is 3,35m width)

 

below is a 700 x commuter x E3 but N gauge model not in perfect scale

 

 

But the Mini-Shinkansen uses the 1435mm gauge as for the entire network lines

Because is expensive to build a dedicade line was decide to convert the Yamagata and Akita lines to 1435mm but in some sections you can see both gauges 1435mm and 1067mm

In both lines you may see the commuter rolling stock or local trains using 1435mm or 1067mm gauge but this is depends of the operator JR or Private/Third Sector Railways

 

 

Edited April 22, 2015 by NuclearErick

[Densha]

Here's a scheme of the gauge changing process: http://www1.tcat.ne.jp/train/kaisetu/gct/gct.htm

 

And some slightly vague pictures of the gauge changing track at Shin-Yatsushiro station in Kyushu: http://ingame2006.blog47.fc2.com/blog-entry-77.html

Here's an explanation:

Currently, the spur line is not used by any regular service, but commencing in 2014 the Gauge Change Train is scheduled to undertake a ~600,000km, 3 year reliability trial between Kumomoto and Kagoshima-Chuo Station, including gauge changing on the spur line.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shin-Yatsushiro_Station

 

[Robert46]

No, there is no such process

 

*The Free Gauge train is a testing and current developing tecnologic to convert 1435mm to 1067mm and vice versa, is not in operational revenue service anywhere in Japan maybe we will see in the Tsuruga-Osaka, Okayama-Shikoku lines or Nagasaki Section not sure if will be Full line or FGT service

 

*Now the Mini-Shinkansen is called Mini because:

 

- Is not a exclusive dedicade line

- They do have grade-crossings

- Speed is 130km/h max like the 1067mm trains

- Cars is smaller in comparission with the "Full" Shinkansen Trains

ex: E6 is narrow body (2,945m, E5 series is 3,35m width)

 

 

But the Mini-Shinkansen uses the 1435mm gauge as for the entire network lines

Because is expensive to build a dedicade line was decide to convert the Yamagata and Akita lines to 1435mm but in some sections you can see both gauges 1435mm and 1067mm

In both lines you may see the commuter rolling stock or local trains using 1435mm or 1067mm gauge but this is depends of the operator JR or Private/Third Sector Railways

 

 

Hi Nuclear,

 

Woww.. this is cool. Now I got the point about the mini shinkansen gauging..

 

I thought the mini shinkansen system also includes gauge changing process.. but that's wrong. Upon looking your photos, I can see why the mini shinkansen can run on 1067mm lines... because the JR company put two gauges at the same line so it can be used by both shinkansen or EMU..

 

Btw, the logo of FGT is almost similar with TGV.. :)

 

Thanks for your clarification, I really like it.. Much appreciated for that! :)

 

 

Here's a scheme of the gauge changing process: http://www1.tcat.ne.jp/train/kaisetu/gct/gct.htm

 

And some slightly vague pictures of the gauge changing track at Shin-Yatsushiro station in Kyushu: http://ingame2006.blog47.fc2.com/blog-entry-77.html

Here's an explanation:

 

Hi Densha,

 

Many thanks for the links..

 

Maybe the point is, if JR company used the gauge changing process for mini shinkansen, it will be less effective or efficient since the process will take longer time and they also need to consider the faster wearing time for axle or wheels caused by the axle-wheel friction resulting hot temperature, not good from maintenance point of view..

[katoftw]

The Kyushu trials have been suspended last year after 33,000km dues to faults being found.

[Robert46]

Hi Kato,

 

Interesting!! can you please explain the reason of the faults?? :)

[katoftw]

Thrust bearing oil seals on the bogies became defective.

[ToniBabelony]

Upon looking your photos, I can see why the mini shinkansen can run on 1067mm lines... because the JR company put two gauges at the same line so it can be used by both shinkansen or EMU..

 

The Yamagata and Akita Shinkansen are actually about 95%< 1,435mm gauge only. Regular passenger traffic is ran by 1,435mm gauge EMU, like the 719-5000 and 701-5000/5500. Dual gauge is very maintenance heavy, especially in harsh and varying weather conditions like in the Tōhoku region.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Toni Babelony

[bikkuri bahn]

Thrust bearing oil seals on the bogies became defective.

It seems they are having trouble reproducing the conditions that led to the fault in a controlled simulation.  Given that the testing schedule requires 600,000km of running (with a mid-term evaluation at 400,000km), this is impacting the project considerably.

[Robert46]

The Yamagata and Akita Shinkansen are actually about 95%< 1,435mm gauge only. Regular passenger traffic is ran by 1,435mm gauge EMU, like the 719-5000 and 701-5000/5500. Dual gauge is very maintenance heavy, especially in harsh and varying weather conditions like in the Tōhoku region.

 

Hi Tony,

 

Interesting, but this made me a bit confused. :) 95% from standard gauge means there is about narrower 70mm gap difference. That's quite a big gap. How can you help to explain this? 

 

If the dual gauge required heavy maintenance due to various weather conditions, how about with the single gauge? Isn't it just the same?

 

It seems they are having trouble reproducing the conditions that led to the fault in a controlled simulation.  Given that the testing schedule requires 600,000km of running (with a mid-term evaluation at 400,000km), this is impacting the project considerably.

 

Will this project be continued or cancelled?

[ToniBabelony]

The Yamagata and Akita Shinkansen are actually about 95%< 1,435mm gauge only. Regular passenger traffic is ran by 1,435mm gauge EMU, like the 719-5000 and 701-5000/5500. Dual gauge is very maintenance heavy, especially in harsh and varying weather conditions like in the Tōhoku region.

 

Interesting, but this made me a bit confused.  :) 95% from standard gauge means there is about narrower 70mm gap difference. That's quite a big gap. How can you help to explain this? 

 

I think we have a 'lost in translation' situation here. Let me rephrase this; I was meaning "More than 95% of the Akita/Yamagata shinkansen lines are 1,435mm gauge with the other 5% or less being dual gauge." It has nothing to do with 95% of 1,435mm gauge, but 95% of the total length of the lines. The 95% isn't even a real number, but just an estimate... The regular EMU on these lines are thus also 1,435mm gauge.

[Robert46]

I think we have a 'lost in translation' situation here. Let me rephrase this; I was meaning "More than 95% of the Akita/Yamagata shinkansen lines are 1,435mm gauge with the other 5% or less being dual gauge." It has nothing to do with 95% of 1,435mm gauge, but 95% of the total length of the lines. The 95% isn't even a real number, but just an estimate... The regular EMU on these lines are thus also 1,435mm gauge.

 

LoL.. :D hahahah.. Okay Toni. Thanks.. My bad.. sorry

[kvp]

To explain it further, the mini shinkansen are called mini because cars are shorter and narrower to fit inside the loading gauge of the old lines. The mini shinkansen lines all have some form of standard gauge tracks. (either standard gauge only, mixed standard and cape gauge or dual gauge) Most of the tracks are standard gauge only. Local commuter trains on these sections are also standard gauge for this reason. The idea for these mini shinkansen lines comes from the classic standard gauge commuter networks found all across Japan on various private networks. So several lightly used cape gauge lines were converted to standard gauge to allow mini shinkansens to use both to the main shinkansen network and the newly converted old lines. Conversion to standard gauge also means there is no freight traffic on these lines.

 

The gauge change technology would allow these old lines to be kept at cape gauge and the gauge change capable trains to run on both the shinkansen network and the old lines. There isn't a really high need for that however, as most new shinkansen lines are built at much higher standards and the old lines have to be rebuilt for higher speeds regardless of regauging or not. The only reason to keep them at cape gauge would be to allow freight on the line mixed in with the passenger trains. Freight and shinkansen didn't really mix well, so the gauge change would be viable only to allow high speed passenger only cape gauge lines interrunning with standard gauge shinkansen lines. I don't know if there is a JR line that fits this description right now, but having the technology would be nice for future through running.

[HantuBlauLOL]

Hmm.. Seikan?

 

GCT for the freighters instead of train on train.

[Kitayama]

Seikan tunnel will be dual gauge.

[spacecadet]

I've always wondered - why did Japan switch to standard gauge for the shinkansen? Stability? Why did they start with narrow gauge to begin with? I mean I don't really know the advantages of one or the other. (And why stick with narrow gauge at all when building modern lines anywhere, given the mini-shinkansen concept and the potential for running mini-shinkansen on any new track?)

[kvp]

Japan already had some standard gauge tracks with all the benefit of high speed running and they wanted to use state of the art technology which was 25kV AC emu-s on standard gauge. The new network allowed no compromise track construction and a huge loading gauge.

 

The old cape gauge network is a legacy and the coosen common gauge that emerged when lines were interconnected. In the early days there were standard, cape and narrow gauge networks, even some in between 1.3 meter tracks mainly for trams. Some networks were regauged several times until settling on a gauge. Some of these oddballs remain and the Tokyo metro network still has 3 different gauges with 5 different loading gauge and power standards. Cape gauge just emerged as the freight interchange standard of the Japanese Government Railways because it was advantagous in hilly terrain which means most of Japan.

 

The shinkansen network were meant to fix all the problems with the old cape gauge network, including heavy freight and high speeds. It turned out to be great for high speed passenger travel, so freight usage was dropped which allowed even greater speeds.

[spacecadet]

So let's say someone proposes a new suburban line between two cities that doesn't exist at all yet, over relatively flat terrain. What gauge would they use at this point?

 

I'm sort of wondering hypothetically 1) if these mini shinkansen lines would have been built standard gauge to begin with if they'd been built from scratch today, and 2) why none of the rest of the network has been upgraded, but only the mini shinkansen lines. Is it just for compatibility with pre-existing equipment? That seems like a real Catch-22. I know this is getting a little off-topic but let's just say the Yamanote Line, which definitely doesn't have to deal with hills (and maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it has dedicated tracks), and is relatively short - what are the advantages of that being cape gauge vs. standard gauge? Just being able to get the trains to the line from the factory?

Edited April 24, 2015 by spacecadet

[railsquid]

So let's say someone proposes a new suburban line between two cities that doesn't exist at all yet, over relatively flat terrain. What gauge would they use at this point?

 

Whatever would be most convenient - if interoperability with other lines is planned, then of course it would confirm to the existing gauge.

 

 

I'm sort of wondering hypothetically 1) if these mini shinkansen lines would have been built standard gauge to begin with if they'd been built from scratch today, and 2) why none of the rest of the network has been upgraded, but only the mini shinkansen lines. Is it just for compatibility with pre-existing equipment? That seems like a real Catch-22. I know this is getting a little off-topic but let's just say the Yamanote Line, which definitely doesn't have to deal with hills (and maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it has dedicated tracks), and is relatively short - what are the advantages of that being cape gauge vs. standard gauge? Just being able to get the trains to the line from the factory?

 

 

There's no particular advantage to cape gauge, but also no disadvantage - it would be pointless converting it.

[katoftw]

Why is cape gauge always frowned upon by Americans?  It is used with great success all across the globe.