Good source to learn about track layout planning and design?

[Kkxzd]

Being new to model trains and due to a bit of OCD, I feel I need to learn a lot more than I actually know right now to plan my first layout (also interested in the knowledge, regardless of a possible layout). I'm wondering what's a good source of information on real life track planning and operations, somewhere where I can learn how things are normally laid out, why, good designs, bad designs, etc. (specially stations)

 

Maybe it's due to not knowing exactly what to look for, but I haven't found much information like this in a consistent and unified place, I've found bits and pieces here and there online, but nothing comprehensive.

 

The best I could find that looks like what I want is this: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0890242275

 

any thoughts?

[velotrain]

It really depends on what your needs are, but since you're uncertain of that you can't go wrong with this book, which might well be considered the bible of modern track planning.  I don't mean to offend anyone here, but this book delves into a lot of stuff that I gather few on this forum are interested in.  A lot of that is due to general approach to the hobby, and the fact that most Japanese modelers (and many non-Japanese here) are more interested in temporary set-ups using sectional track.

 

This statement "also interested in the knowledge, regardless of a possible layout" tells me that Armstrong will be right for you, and his approach is a lot more cerebral than what track pieces will fit within a given space.  Besides knowledge, I think you'll find it a good read. 

 

There's a bunch of other sources, including what I think is known as the Small Layout SIG of the NMRA, and I believe they have a Yahoo Group.

 

Since you're new to model trains, you might want to start with what's known as a micro layout, and if you google Carl Arendt you'll find lots of info on these, and a wealth of examples.

 

Also try googling "track plan" and you should get tons of hits.

[Kkxzd]

I'm sold, I just bought the book. As I said, it looked like what I wanted and you just confirmed it, thanks!

 

I'll check the other sources you mentioned too.  :)

[ozman2009]

Ah, John Armstrong. One of the most knowledgeable and imaginative track planners ever.

[ToniBabelony]

Personally, I have no experience with North American style layout planning, but I do with reading a lot about German and UK style layout planning. Basically, what I've learned from that is that you should keep everything as simple as possible, like with contemporary railway lines. Limit yourself with points and maximise the usage of space for movement and storage with as efficient shunting as possible. Of course, for layouts, this is not always the case, as sometimes there is the wish for a lot of complex switching or space for scenery.

 

My basic knowledge comes mostly from the little book series published by Alba Verlag in the 1980s: http://www.alba-publikation.de/oxid.php/sid/ccfe604bb626187eb13f5a0f7a882f44/cl/alist/cnid/212 and the Kleine Modellbahn Reihe from the same company (a little bit older IIRC) These books are IMO very good, as they were published just out of the era where model trains merged out of the toy-train 'spaghetti layout' stage and address these issues critically. Of course, these are focused on German prototypes, but this might be interesting as it gives another perspective on layout planning.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Toni Babelony

[marknewton]

I agree with Charles & Gary - John Armstrong's book is definitely worth having.

 

But I might add that typical track configurations or arrangements in Japan are often quite different to what was common used in the US. So if you are interested in how real Japanese railways laid out their stations and yards, have a look at this website:

 

http://senrohaisenzu.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[marknewton]

Tony, thanks for posting that link to Alba books. Years ago I had a copy of their guide to tramway modelling, but someone borrowed it and I never got it back, and I couldn't remember who published it or where I got it from. Now I know!  :)

 

Thanks again,

 

Mark.

[velotrain]

But I might add that typical track configurations or arrangements in Japan are often quite different to what was common used in the US.

 

Mark - That's certainly true, and things have also changed quite a bit in the U.S. from when Armstrong was writing.

 

However, what I found most invaluable about the book is the general process of analysis and approach to track planning - and operations.

 

Although, if Kkxzd wants to run Shinkansen, the book may only provide some useful background conceptual material.

 

How do the Shinkansen handle commissary operations - do trucks bring needed supplies to the train before departure?

 

Quite different from the old days when name trains were assembled from divergent quarters in stub-end terminals - and greatly reducing operational opportunity.

[kvp]

 

How do the Shinkansen handle commissary operations - do trucks bring needed supplies to the train before departure?

If you mean food, then since the end of general dining car operations, they just swap the food trolleys. Everything else is pretty much loaded the same way as on an airplane. The trash is emptied between runs and the train is properly cleaned before every service day in the depot. This means the amount of servicing between runs within the same day is not really more than what is needed for a subway train.

 

 

Quite different from the old days when name trains were assembled from divergent quarters in stub-end terminals - and greatly reducing operational opportunity.

Shinkansen are emu sets. They are in a fixed consist, so the maximum you get is the connecting and disconnecting of various sets that travel together on parts of their routes. At the stub end terminals they just reverse and go back. Afaik this is the most efficient way to operate trains.

 

 

But I might add that typical track configurations or arrangements in Japan are often quite different to what was common used in the US.

I think the nearest examples are the urban railway systems. The US subway/elevated railway systems operated just like the shinkansen today. Including the usage of emu sets, cabs on both ends of the trains and even track, station and platform arrangements are very much like on the New York elevated system before the 2nd world war. It was a highly efficient urban system and the shinkansen lines make petty much the whole Japan part of the Tokyo-Osaka suburban area. The most important part of operations is not shunting, but running on time, with several trains of different speeds and stop patterns on the line closely following and bypassing each other. Just like all stops, A/B or express or limited stop express trains on the New York and other US systems many years ago. (even the elevated tracks match the same style, except more steel and concrete instad of wood)

[velotrain]

Just like all stops, A/B or express or limited stop express trains on the New York and other US systems many years ago. (even the elevated tracks match the same style, except more steel and concrete instad of wood)

 

Who was using wood for elevated trains?

 

In the 20th century?

[kvp]

The same people, who are still using wood in the 21st century:

Looks really nice, but the technology is slightly historic. Please compare this with the new Tokyo-Ueno connecting line...

[velotrain]

Well, duh . . . that is wood walkways, not structural.  And perhaps ties, I can't tell for sure.

 

Look at the steel structure beyond it.

[ToniBabelony]

Japanese railways also use wood during construction/reconstruction phases of railway lines, but only as a temporary method. An example here of the reconstruction of Nishiya sta. on the Sōtetsu Main line.

 

 

I have however never seen wood as a permanent installation on such a large scale base as on the Chicago example. It looks pretty crude and something from the turn of the last century, but if it works, it works...

Edited April 15, 2015 by Toni Babelony

[velotrain]

^{Well - it is after all a renewable resource.}

^{I'd say it also has an aesthetic quality in that pattern, something that I always believed was a priority for the Japanese.}

 

^{You'd have to ask the CTA why they use it.}

 

^{I can't discern what role the wood is actually playing at Nishiya sta. - do you know?}

 

^{> "It looks pretty crude and something from the turn of the last century, but if it works, it works..."}

 

^{I suspect you mean the second previous turn of the century.}

[ToniBabelony]

Aesthetics in Japan? Only when there is profit to be made or if the involved party feels the need to contribute to area beautification (and of course create a good name, which will again attract customers and profit). If you've ever been here you'll notice that is rarely the case. It's all about space efficiency, which can lead to some nice aesthetics, but this is not a priority at all.

 

Wood is used in railway constructions here occasionally to provide easy access for the workers after service hours, so they don't need to stumble over the sleepers and ballast. It's also easier to navigate small machinery.

[Ochanomizu]

Hello,

 

I have the 2nd Edition of the John Armstrong book, from 1969.  I highly recommend, especially if you intend to run steam and/or freight.  The book has excellent descriptions of workings in the yard.  My copy is falling apart and I would refer to it more than once a year.

 

Good luck.

[marknewton]

Mark - That's certainly true, and things have also changed quite a bit in the U.S. from when Armstrong was writing. However, what I found most invaluable about the book is the general process of analysis and approach to track planning - and operations.

Couldn't agree more with you on that one, Charles. I often think that Armstrong had a better understanding of how railways work than many so-called professionals.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[velotrain]

I was trying to suggest that while his examples are based on mid-century American practices, his analysis and design principles are just as applicable to modeling any railway - including contemporary Japan.

[Mudkip Orange]

 

^{You'd have to ask the CTA why they use it.}

 

 

Wood superstructure on steel substructure is lightweight, drains quickly, has gaps for salt and other particulates to fall through (important in the snowbelt), and spot repairs can be made with hand tools. What's not to like?

[velotrain]

Wood superstructure on steel substructure is lightweight, drains quickly, has gaps for salt and other particulates to fall through (important in the snowbelt), and spot repairs can be made with hand tools. What's not to like?

 

I have no problem with it.

 

Viktor and Toni seem to have issues.

[ToniBabelony]

Viktor and Toni seem to have issues.

 

Now, where do you get this idea from? I never gave my opinion on it if I like it or not. I only said it looks crude and old-fashioned (is that a bad thing now?). Nothing more... Also, is having an opinion on something to call out people for?

Edited April 18, 2015 by Toni Babelony

[kvp]

Toni, i think we agree on this. Afaik the only thing i said was that operations of both systems are very similar, but the japanese high speed design uses less wood. :)  Please don't start to compare different levels of technology, since the difference in age and speed clearly indicates two different eras.

 

The old Chicago system can be considered a legacy or historic technology, with all the wood, the sharp curves and everything an elevated tram system needs. (i love it like i do the late 19th century electric subway line in Hungary which is still running) The japanese shinkansen network provides the same service on a faster and larger scale, meaning bigger trains, longer distances and higher speeds, which needs a more modern track building technology to support. But the train operating patterns are exactly the same. This means if someone wants to use a book from more than half a century ago to learn modern train operations on the shinkansen network (that wasn't there back then), then the best way is to look at these old elevated urban systems and scale it up.

 

Even modern freight patterns are very similar, thanks to the japanese cape gauge network running very much like the above mentioned urban/interurban systems, including the use of emu/dmu sets. This means any freight operations have to follow the same pattern urban/interurban freight had to follow, to fit into the timetable of the passenger trains. The usage of baggage emu/dmu cars or in some cases combines were very common on the japanese mainlines until the end of the JNR era which in the US was common practice only on urban/interurban networks and were rarely seen on the real mainlines. This is why if it has to be an old book for track planning, then i would recommend one about urban/interurban traction systems. Just increase train lengths, speeds, distances and curve sizes when applying it to modern japanese networks.

[velotrain]

Now, where do you get this idea from? I never gave my opinion on it if I like it or not. I only said it looks crude and old-fashioned (is that a bad thing now?).

 

Old-fashioned is fine, but it is clearly carefully designed and constructed - so hardly crude ("constructed in a rudimentary or makeshift way"). 

 

You may prefer the sterile uniformity of concrete, but that is no reason to denigrate other structures.

[ToniBabelony]

You may prefer the sterile uniformity of concrete, but that is no reason to denigrate other structures.

Sorry to hurt the structures' feelings.

[velotrain]

Sorry to hurt the structures' feelings.

 

It's wood, so quite able to absorb the shock and recover  ;-)