Construction on the Tokyu Toyoko Line

[ote-m]

I ride the Toyoko Line every day and I see there is new track being laid just north of Myorenji Station and just south of Hiyoshi Station. I've heard something about a connection with the Sagami Line, and I'm pretty sure that explains the construction around Hiyoshi. Can anyone point me in the right direction to learn about what they're building?

[ToniBabelony]

I ride the Toyoko Line every day and I see there is new track being laid just north of Myorenji Station and just south of Hiyoshi Station. I've heard something about a connection with the Sagami Line, and I'm pretty sure that explains the construction around Hiyoshi. Can anyone point me in the right direction to learn about what they're building?

 

This is the Sōtetsu-Tōkyū Through Line (相鉄・東急直通線), to be opened in 2019, one year after the opening of the Sōtetsu-JR Through Line (相鉄・JR直通線) in 2018. You can read all about it (in Japanese) on this website: http://www.chokutsusen.jp/

 

In short, this line will connect to Nishiya station the Sōtetsu Main Line via a new Shin-Yokohama underground station. This will provide a direct connection from Ebina (Sōtetsu Main Line) and Shōnandai (Sōtetsu Izumino Line) to the metropolitan area. This will the first time since the 1960s that Sōtetsu has passenger through traffic with another company.

 

Previously, Sōtetsu had trains running on the Odakyū Odawara Line to Hon-Atsugi, but that was quickly abolished after the opening of the new Ebina station and lost prospects of re-obtaining the JNR Sagami line (originally owned by Sagami Railway, a.k.a. Sōtetsu). This was more of a remnant after the split-up from the Dai-Tōkyū era from WW2, rather than a practical through service anyway.

 

Anyway, the main reason for building these lines is to relief passengers of the difficult transfer at Yokohama station from the Sōtetsu station to JR via the extremely narrow passage, as well as the troublesome transfer to the Tōkyū Tōyoko line, which is buried deeply underground.

[bikkuri bahn]

AFAIK the work around Myorenji is either the lengthening of the station platforms to accomodate 10 car trains, or some work on the MOW track located in the cutting past the platforms in the up direction

[ToniBabelony]

AFAIK the work around Myorenji is either the lengthening of the station platforms to accomodate 10 car trains, or some work on the MOW track located in the cutting past the platforms in the up direction

 

That I completely forgot! The Tōyoko line sees a lot of 8-car trains still and I was wondering why; some stations don't accommodate standard 10-car length trains.

 

Even though Sōtetsu runs 8-car length trains (10000 Series) like Tōkyū, these would probably not fit on the Tōkyū network, as they are slightly wider than the regular Tōkyū trains (2930 mm of the Sōtetsu 10000 Series vs. max. 2850 mm of the Tōkyō Metro 10000 Series). The newer Sōtetsu rolling stock (10000 and 11000) also don't have front doors, so through running on the Tōkyō Metro network would be impossible.

 

Presumably, Sōtetsu will invest in the replacements for the aging 7000 and N7000 Series trains for through running on the Tōkyū network and beyond. Funny enough, the 7000 and N7000 Series from Sōtetsu would fit on the Tōkyū network with only a few electronic adjustments, as they can be formed easily into 8-car formations, have the correct dimensions and have front doors.

 

Sōtetsu will have no problem with the JR East network, as the width, length and safety system (ATS-P) are already compatible. Most likely only the 10000 and 11000 Series will be eligible for through running, as JR East probably don't want to see the old and off-beat 8000 and 9000 Series on their network.

[railsquid]

Hmm, wonder if I can find an excuse to go and poke around in that direction...

[ToniBabelony]

Hmm, wonder if I can find an excuse to go and poke around in that direction...

 

Apart from not having any touristy destinations at all, except for Yokohama itself, there are Sōtetsu trains and we could meet up for a beer! There is this awesome bar in Kannai, Yokohama, called Shin-Yokohama Kikanku (新横浜機関区). It's not very cheap, but it's relatively big, they have trains, football and a layout you can run your stuff on. xD

[bikkuri bahn]

I'm looking forward to the new station at Shin-Yokohama, hopefully it will help reduce congestion on the short stretch on the Yokohama Line between Shin-Yokohama and Kikuna, in which trains can get sardine packed after a concert at Nissan Stadium or Yokohama Arena, not to mention a few up Nozomis from Shin Osaka arriving within a few minutes of each other.  I reckon some pax bound for northern Toyoko Line destinations will opt to use the link to Hiyoshi.  It seems the new Shin-Yokohama station will have a turnback track, allowing some trains to terminate/originate there.

[ToniBabelony]

I'm looking forward to the new station at Shin-Yokohama, hopefully it will help reduce congestion on the short stretch on the Yokohama Line between Shin-Yokohama and Kikuna, in which trains can get sardine packed after a concert at Nissan Stadium or Yokohama Arena, not to mention a few up Nozomis from Shin Osaka arriving within a few minutes of each other.  I reckon some pax bound for northern Toyoko Line destinations will opt to use the link to Hiyoshi.  It seems the new Shin-Yokohama station will have a turnback track, allowing some trains to terminate/originate there.

 

I dearly hope so. Although I don't like the Yokohama line, I travel on it quite frequently. Even in off-peak hours that short stretch is packed!

 

Stations like Hiyoshi, Shin-Yokohama and Nishiya will all receive either turnback tracks or switchback sidings, providing options for complicated operations. If there will ever come a day Sōtetsu will quadruple the tracks between Nishiya and Futamatagawa, the switchback tracks in Nishiya will probably be converted to through tracks. The Sōtetsu Main line at the moment is already congested to the max, so so much for regular and frequent through runs on the Sōtetsu Main line from Nishiya... xD

[Guest keio6000]

That I completely forgot! The Tōyoko line sees a lot of 8-car trains still and I was wondering why; some stations don't accommodate standard 10-car length trains.

 

Toni, your enyclopaedic knowledge of tokyo area private lines continues to make you my hero(ine).    now can you divine in your crystal ball whether microace will ever make a tokyu 8500 or will we have to settle for greenmax's "just ok" version? :)

[Guest keio6000]

Unrelated Tokyu topic: 

 

It has occurred to me that the Tokyu setagaya line completes its 5km trip in about 17-18 minutes.  All else being equal, a good runner can match or exceed this pace.   I'm an "ok" runner; my current "really good for me" time is about 19-point-something minutes for the 5k, though i'm getting and dramatically slower every month it seems.  Still, this is one of the few train likes that I think a determined and skilled runner could indeed "beat", end to end (though it would essentially require no impediments, such as red lights for the runner and also would require a road essentially right next to the tracks - something that the setagaya line has only for its northern half).  i wonder if there are many other lines of non-trivial length that would allow this (other than the perpetually broken london undergound central line ha ha).

 

anyway, i wanted to point out that "running" (or walking) lines is a great way to see japan annoy pedestrians and vehicles alike, get some great photo opportunities, and have a great day out train and people watching in japan.  for longer lines, you can run out and then take the train back whenever you get tired or, if you want to entertain people less with your post run odour, you can take the train out and run back.   i have run a number of lines in and around tokyo and have had a great time in each.  Of course, since it is japan, you can be rest assured that a convenience store is not too far away so you dont need to carry much of anything.  The downside is that some lines don't parallel roads very well, so you may find yourself on some pretty unimpressive side roads at times, but on the plus side, those are usually where you can carry a good pace.

 

Lines i have run in their entirity:

 

- Keio line + Keio Takao line - approx 45k by train and a bit more than that running. 

- Yamanote line

- Seibu Tamagawa line "there and back" around 20k running (16 k train). its not possible to keep up with a single train, but if you leave when a train leaves, you can probably outrun the next train one way.

- ginza line

- fukutoshin line

- enoshima line

- keio inokashira line

and some others in parts

 

want to do:

 

JR nikko line

Variety of Toyama lines from Toyama all the way to bijodaira looks like an absolutely stunning run

 

oh, and one more thing - from shinjuku to tokyo is 7.2km walking according to google maps.  it's 31 minutes by yamanote line.  in theory, i could even 'beat that train' , but it would require an unrealistically clear road and me running quite fast.  still, there's a good sunday earlyearly morning challenge for somebody :).  a more realistic challenge is to leave your friend at the central east ticket gates and meet in after the ticket exit at old tokyo station - but of course you have to trust him to take the yamanote line and not the chuo :)

Edited April 9, 2015 by keio6000

[kvp]

5 km in 17-18 minutes means a 17 km/h average speed. The average comfortable walking speed is 4 km/h while the average sprinting speed is around 12 km/h. A Setagaya line tram is still faster and if it were slower than walking speed, then nobody would use it except elderly people. Sometimes it is possible to race a train, tram or metro between two stations, but only on short distances and by calculating in the idle time at the next station. The only thing that is easy to beat is a bus or streetcar stuck in a traffic jam, but that is way off from the normal timetable speeds.

 

Personally i prefer to ride on the lines and usually walk along them only for fun or to take pictures. (many times when the weather is good i walk home from work only to be able to go across a bridge over the nearest railway station) If you walk along a line for photographing and there are no parallel roads, you can also walk along the tracks, just stay out of the loading gauge all the time to be safe and try not to get caught.

[ToniBabelony]

Toni, your enyclopaedic knowledge of tokyo area private lines continues to make you my hero(ine).    now can you divine in your crystal ball whether microace will ever make a tokyu 8500 or will we have to settle for greenmax's "just ok" version? :)

 

Leave MA out of the picture for any future Tōkyū releases. After their debacle with their version of the 5000 Series, I don't think Tōkyū will ever grant MA a license to make one of their trains ever again. Reason: the quality was appalling and the reaction of MA was not to Tōkyū's liking (from hearsay). I'd say go fror Greenmax for now, but don't forget about Kato as well! They seem to be targeting Tōkyū as their next private-railway prey after Seibu, though knowing Kato, this might take eons.

 

P.s. I've been riding the Odakyū Enoshima line by bicycle a few times (±26.5km). It's a relatively flat stretch on the Fujisawa Highway (not a highway really), but it still takes roughly two hours from Sagamiono to Katase-Enoshima (including stops for drinks). Traffic is terrible, sidewalks aren't smooth, cycling is hateful in Japan. Still, I bike, because I must.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Toni Babelony

[Densha]

kvp,

 

I can keep up with trams in the Netherlands by bike... in city centres it may be possible to keep at the same pace by running, but even 'just' trams are already quite fast actually.

 

I assume then that it's no problem to walk along the tracks in Hungary, but if you do so in the Netherlands you get arrested and a fine. How would the regulations for that be in Japan?

[Guest keio6000]

Leave MA out of the picture for any future Tōkyū releases. After their debacle with their version of the 5000 Series, I don't think Tōkyū will ever grant MA a license to make one of their trains ever again. Reason: the quality was appalling and the reaction of MA was not to Tōkyū's liking (from hearsay). I'd say go fror Greenmax for now, but don't forget about Kato as well! They seem to be targeting Tōkyū as their next private-railway prey after Seibu, though knowing Kato, this might take eons.

 

 

i hadnt heard of the microace 5000 problems.  good to know as that was on the periphery of my want list.  do you know specifically where the quality was bad?  that said, i think i'll stay away from 'modern' tokyu altogether as s collecting niche.

 

8500 is a bit hard to do since i it really needs to look metallic to look right.  i have a well built GM kit version (probably from a pre-painted kit iirc) that is better than the gm version now being sold RTR, except that the kit version has no lights.  the GM RTR version is below average.

[Guest keio6000]

Personally i prefer to ride on the lines and usually walk along them only for fun or to take pictures. (many times when the weather is good i walk home from work only to be able to go across a bridge over the nearest railway station) If you walk along a line for photographing and there are no parallel roads, you can also walk along the tracks, just stay out of the loading gauge all the time to be safe and try not to get caught.

 

this is a terrible idea for japan. or anywhere, but certainly for japan.  do not walk along the tracks in japan, period, unless you are in the middle of hokkaido and even then just don't do it.  seriously.  don't for any number of good reasons.

 

many runners can do 5k in 18 minutes.  it is a fast pace to be sure.   most "fit" people run 5k in about 21-26 minutes.   i do a 5k every saturday (though i dont like the distance) and our top runners have come in at under 16 minutes and the club record is under 15. for those who like to ride the trains, that's a great; i like it too.  i'm just saying that running offers another way to appreciate them and the special bonus of a potentially beatable train on the setagaya line is pretty cool (though in practice, sunday morning when zero traffic would be the best bet).   in fact, if one ran south to north and did the southern half to kamimachi on setagaya dori a bit just to even it out a bit, i think it's very much doable.

[railsquid]

I assume then that it's no problem to walk along the tracks in Hungary, but if you do so in the Netherlands you get arrested and a fine. How would the regulations for that be in Japan?

 

Pretty much the same, I think. Though the fine might also involve compensating the railway company for any disruption caused. On the plus side, a free shaming on national TV would probably be thrown in free.

 

Though I've cycled through and around Tokyo quite a bit, I've never specifically followed a railway line. However since way back I've made it a policy to walk between stations when time is available, partly for the exercise, partly to discover new things and partly as a way of comprehending how Tokyo fits together. Which came in mightily useful the one time (March 11, 2011) when I did have to follow a railway line (Yamanote between Gotanda and Takadanobaba) as I realised I'd actually walked most of it at one time or another.