First trip to Japan

[SantaFe1970]

I will be making my first trip to Japan this coming May, and am looking forward to all the rail experiences -- even though the official focus of the trip is more the usual tourist fare of temples, castles, and museums. (This is a group school trip I am co-planning with a Japanese colleague.)

 

I'm sharing the train-related dimension of our itinerary in part just for the fun of sharing, but also in hopes the very knowledgeable folks on this forum can point out any interesting sidelights regarding equipment, stations, scenery, history, etc. Also, of course, if there seem to be any lapses in travel sense here...

 

Day 1
Haruka Limited Express from KIX airport to Tennoji
JR Yamatoji Line Rapid Service from Tennoji to Nara

 

Day 2
JR Nara Rapid Line from Nara to Kyoto (Todaiji in Nara in am)
Tozai and Karasuma subway in Kyoto (Nijo palace in Kyoto in pm)

 

Day 3

Hikari shinkansen from Kyoto to Himeji, changing trains at Shin Osaka, and return (Himeji castle & Mt Shosha, after dinner return to Kyoto)

 

Day 4

JR Nara Line from Kyoto to Inari (Fushimi inari shrine)
JR Nara Line from Inari to JR Uji (Byodoin temple)

Keihan Uji line from Uji to Chushojima

Keihan Main Line Limited Express from Chushojima to Gion Shijo (Kodaiji temple)
(evening) Hankyu Railway from Kawaramachi to Karasuma

 

Day 5

Hikari shinkansen from Kyoto to Maibara

JR Biwako Line from Maibara to Hikone (Hikone castle)
JR Biwako Line from Hikone to Kyoto

JR Nara Line from Kyoto to Tofukuji (Tofukuji temple)
Keihan Main Line from Tofukuji to Sanjo

 

Day 6

Hikari shinkansen from Kyoto to Tokyo
Yamanote Line from Tokyo to Akihabara
Tsukuba Express from Akihabara to Asakusa (sanja matsuri festival)
Asakusa Line subway from Asakusa to Asakusabashi, JR Sobu line from Asakusabashi to JR Ryogoku and back (sumo tournament)

 

 

Day 7

Asakusa Line subway from Asakusa to Sengakuji (Sengakuji temple with graves of 47 ronin)

Asakuska Line subway from Sengakuji to Gotenda
Yamanote Line from Gotenda to Harajuku (Meiji temple, lunch and shopping) 

(optional if time allows) Yamanote Line from Harajuku to Komagome (Rikugien garden)
Yamanote Line from Komagome to Ueno

Ginza Line subway from Ueno to Asakusa

(evening) Asakusa Line subway from Asakusa to Oshiage and back (Skytree!)

 

Day 8

Asakusa Line subway from Asakusa to Shimbashi
JR Yokosuka Line from Shimbashi to Kamakura (Hachiman shrine)
Enoden tram from Kamakura to Hase and back (Great Buddha)

JR Yokosuka Line from Kamakura to Yokohama
JR Negishi Line from Yokohama to Ishikawacho and back (chinatown)

JR Yokosuka Line from Yokohama to Shimbashi
Asakusa Line subway from Shimbashi to Asakusa

 

Day 9

Asakusa Line subway from Asakusa to Asakusabashi
JR Sobu Line from Asakusabashi to JR Ryogoku (Edo Museum)
Oedo Line subway from Ryogoku to Monzen-Nakacho

Tozai Line subway from Monzen-Nakacho to Otemachi (Imperial Palace gardens)

Tozai Line subway from Otemachi to Kayabacho
Hibiya Line subway from Kayabacho to Akihabara (shopping)

Tsukuba Express from Akihabara to Asakusa
(optional evening) Ginza Line subway from Asakusa to Ginza and back

 

Day 10

Ginza Line subway from Asakusa to Ueno
Keisei Skyliner from Ueno to Narita

 

Whew!

 

I've left out a couple of buses, one ropeway (Mount Shosha), and almost all the tourist destinations. (I'm sure knowledgeable people can easily guess what we plan to see...)

 

(Edited to better show tourist destinations)
 

Edited March 26, 2015 by SantaFe1970

[Ken Ford]

All that time in Kyoto and no Randen?  ;)

[SantaFe1970]

Ah yes, the Randen. Our original itinerary included one more day in Japan, and thus one more day in Kyoto -- which would have included a visit to Arashiyama and at least a one-way trip on the Randen. But the airline cancelled one of our original flights and we were only able to reschedule for the following day, thus losing one whole day from the trip. Irritating, to say the least.

[spacecadet]

I'm not sure what your plans are at the destinations you're going to, but unless you're *only* really riding those trains, some of those later days seem really ambitious. You're going to be worn out, if you can even do it. I'm looking at Day 7, for example, and I can pretty much guarantee that you're not going to be able to do SkyTree in addition to at least three or four other destinations (unless you're just going, looking, then leaving). SkyTree is a process. It's worth it, but it's not something you can do in 15 minutes.

 

I'm a little concerned that if you actually plan to do anything at the destinations you list, you might not really have the time to do all this. My wife and I usually plan on two destinations per day there (plus meals/restaurants), and we're pretty quick, and pretty fit people used to walking. We're still pretty dead by about day 6 or 7, and we always feel like we've really packed stuff in by the end of it.

[miyakoji]

Yeah I was thinking that too about days 8 and 9, even though some of the entries just represent transfers.  Japanese transportation is good, but I'm not sure anything is that good :).  Maybe if you can get to bed early each night, don't bother trying to watch Japanese tv or anything, and get a real early start... but yeah I agree it looks like a super busy itinerary.

[katoftw]

I also don't understand the days.  Lots of riding regular commuter services and not a lot of time at destinations.  Day 8 - If all you are doing at Enoshima is riding the Tram from Kamakura to Hase and back.  You might as well not to it at all.

 

There is a monorail there.  The is the actual island of Enoshima also.  Probably the most important aspect of the area.

 

Personally I'd put Arashiyama before trips to Nara and Himeji.

Edited March 26, 2015 by katoftw

[miyakoji]

Himeji has the castle, which is outstanding.  I like castles.  I kinda agree about Nara, it takes a while to get down there on the Miyakoji(!) rapid, or out there from Osaka on the Yamatoji rapid.  But maybe he wants to see Todaiji.  The deer drove me slightly nuts, although everyone else with the sembei drew them away from me.

[katoftw]

We all have opinion and places we wanna visit.  I had limited time and a trip on the Randen to Arashiyama was more important than a castle which I knew I was seeing elsewhere and the deer at Nara.

 

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see them also, but if you have to start deleting destinations from your itinerary due to lack of time.  Then I'd be deleting the ones with more travel times first, so the others you do go to can be enjoyed for longer.

 

If I had only 2 days in Kyoto, I'd be doing Randen/Arashiyama/Sagano on the first day, and early start ie 7am arrive at Fishimi Inari and then onto Kinkajuki in the afternoon for the second day.

Edited March 26, 2015 by katoftw

[SantaFe1970]

Thanks for all the feedback, especially the cautionary advice regarding trying to do too much. I'm going to go back to my original post and clarify times and destinations a bit -- I was trying to keep it just to the trains...

 

Some of the apparently fuller days include evening activities.

 

Generally, we will be leaving our accommodations at 8:00 am while based in Kyoto, and 8:15 in Tokyo. I fully expect the trip participants -- mostly 17-18 year old students -- will be very tired at the end of each day. 

 

Though this is my first trip to Japan, this is my tenth group trip overseas. I'm a pretty meticulous planner, including using Google maps to estimate all walking times and distances, and Google street view to get a sense of what bus stops, intersections, etc. look like. That being said, I also believe in being flexible, and know when to sacrifice "the plan" when opportunities arise, or folks are too tired... We will be using JR railpass and IC cards, so will be able to change things when we want to. 

 

As far as traveling stamina, I'm actually planning of getting up earlier/staying up later than the group as a whole, and exploring more on my own. (I admit I am a walker/hiker, and have a greater than typical appetite for sight-seeing.)

[SantaFe1970]

Himeji has the castle, which is outstanding.  I like castles.  I kinda agree about Nara, it takes a while to get down there on the Miyakoji(!) rapid, or out there from Osaka on the Yamatoji rapid.  But maybe he wants to see Todaiji.  The deer drove me slightly nuts, although everyone else with the sembei drew them away from me.

 

Indeed, Himeji is perhaps the goal-of-goals for me this trip. Especially since extensive renovations are just about to be completed -- I expect it to be pristine in May.

 

And yes, we'll be seeing Todaiji.

[katoftw]

I would not attempt to travel between 8 and 9 am while in Tokyo.  Travel either at 7:30am or 9:30am.  Unless of course you are prepared for the famous Japan crush, and the students are also prepared.  Normally only lasts a few stations while departing Tokyo center.

 

All fine for other destinations around Japan.

Edited March 26, 2015 by katoftw

[SantaFe1970]

I also don't understand the days.  Lots of riding regular commuter services and not a lot of time at destinations.  Day 8 - If all you are doing at Enoshima is riding the Tram from Kamakura to Hase and back.  You might as well not to it at all.

 

There is a monorail there.  The is the actual island of Enoshima also.  Probably the most important aspect of the area.

 

 

We are only riding the Enoden from Kamakura to Hase and back to see the Great Buddha and associated sites. Will also step onto the beach by Hase to consider the battle there at the end of the Kamakura bakufu -- and to let the students dip their toes in the Pacific... Not going to go all the way out to Enoshima at all. I did consider that possibility, with a return to Tokyo via the monorail, but decided that really would be too much for many of the trip participants. Instead we are returning to Tokyo in the evening after eating in Yokohama chinatown.

[SantaFe1970]

I would not attempt to travel between 8 and 9 am while in Tokyo.  Travel either at 7:30am or 9:30am.  

 

My Japanese colleague agrees. Actually, I want to show the student participants a little bit of the rush hour experience -- but not so much that they are overwhelmed. 

[katoftw]

The day we travelled from Skinjuku to Ofuna, it look like this at 8:45am.

 

 

3-4 stations onwards heading away from Tokyo center, each car only have 4-5 people in it.

 

Nothing like seeing a train pull up and seeing a commuter's face pressed up against the windows of the doors.  What a giggle.

 

For you travelling accross the whole Tokyo center might get more interesting.

 

Friday and Saturday nights and Sunday afternoon between Harajuku and Shunjuku can get wild also.  Even travelling with 1, 3 and 5 year olds, it was fun.

Edited March 26, 2015 by katoftw

[SantaFe1970]

Thanks, katoftw, for the advice and pics. 

 

When I worked in NYC, I got used to the packed subways (if not quite as packed as Tokyo). But once when I stepped onto a car, at Times Square during the evening rush, the car was strangely -- empty. I looked to my left, and the opposite end of the car was packed with commuters, as you would expect. I looked to my right, and there was one guy, stark naked, but entirely painted silver. I promptly took my place at the opposite end of the car, pushed up against everyone else. 

[JR 500系]

Interesting plan!

 

However, like many has mentioned, it is kinda rush. Please allow me to share a little input:

 

1) You have vast experience in bringing groups for tours which is very good, but do remember that people tend to 'not follow instructions' which delays time. I have some experience in bringing groups and I don't like it when people are late for the meeting time and we miss the whole planned schedule...  Please cater for this too.

 

2) The Monorail which katoftw mentioned in Enoshima is the Shonan-Enoshima monorail: http://www.shonan-monorail.co.jp/publics/index/32/ It goes from Ofuna to Shonan-Kamakura station, right beside Enoden Kamakura station. IMHO I think it's a great ride to try a suspended monorail, please there is also a HUGE Goddess of Mercy statue at Ofuna to view.

[SantaFe1970]

Thanks, JR500, for your perspective. For me, as a transportation enthusiast, I have been feeling the pull of the Shonan-Enoshima monorail... (My Japanese colleague is pretty indifferent, frankly.) 

 

And as far as people following instructions goes, it will help enormously that my colleague and I are well known to these young people and not to be trifled with... And we are a small group, fourteen total. These students love my colleague, and consider me capable of -- well, they would rather not know. A couple of years ago I was leading a group in Ireland, and -- as a joke -- I loudly announced that we would meet again at that spot at an absurdly precise time, say 7 minutes after the hour. When we all gathered again, at 7 minutes past, a bystander who had overheard my announcement came up to say he had been watching and wondering whether this precise request would be respected. (I'm also very lucky to be able to travel with very smart young people who, frankly, are a joy to be with.)

[railsquid]

Like katoftw indicates, the Tokyo rush hour isn't uniformly crowded. When I was communting I managed to time/route it so 98% of the time the trains were empty enough to avoid body contact, and that during the peak period doing a classic commute in from the suburbs and across the centre.

 

However I suspect the Ginza and Asakusa lines will be very crowded in the mornings, the Ginza line probably in both directions and the Asakusa line inbound towards Nihonbashi/Shinbashi. (Don't quote me on that though, I've never had any need to travel those lines at those times).

 

 

Tsukuba Express from Akihabara to Asakusa (sanja matsuri festival)

 

Be aware that the Tsukuba Express Asakusa station is quite a distance from the main Asakusa station. Though it's quite a nice walk between the two.

 

An alternative route from the Akihabara area to Asakusa would be with the Ginza line from Suehirocho. BTW with the Ginza line you will need to be careful which platform you need, as many stations (including Suehirocho) have side platforms with no direct connection between them, and the last thing you want to do is get the station staff to process a whole group's worth of tickets to let you back out.

[SantaFe1970]

 I suspect the Ginza and Asakusa lines will be very crowded in the mornings, the Ginza line probably in both directions and the Asakusa line inbound towards Nihonbashi/Shinbashi. (Don't quote me on that though, I've never had any need to travel those lines at those times).

 

 

Be aware that the Tsukuba Express Asakusa station is quite a distance from the main Asakusa station. Though it's quite a nice walk between the two.

 

 

 

Thanks, railsquid, for your insider perspective and tips.

 

With regard to the Ginza Line, my Japanese colleague has suggested that since it starts at Asakusa that should help with crowding in the morning. With regard to the Askusa Line, my planning thought has been to aim for the tail of the morning rush, and maybe pick and choose the trains we ride, avoiding really packed ones.

 

Thanks for the head's up regarding the Tsukuba Express Asakusa station. I was aware of this, but while planning the trip it did take me a long time to realize that the Tsukuba Express station was not at all close to the Ginza/Asakusa Subway stations of the same name. A tricky point indeed.

 

As far as ticketing goes, I'm hoping that by the time our little group gets to Tokyo we will all be comfortable with flashing our IC cards. 

[railsquid]

As far as ticketing goes, I'm hoping that by the time our little group gets to Tokyo we will all be comfortable with flashing our IC cards. 

 

What I mean is, if you get on the wrong Ginza line platform at some stations, the only way to get to the other one is to go back out through the ticket barrier, up the stairs and over the street. Unfortunately, if you mistakenly enter a station and want to go back out (unless you have a day ticket or commuter pass), you'll need to get the barrier staff to process each card/ticket manually (though if you're a group they might just let you through en masse and tell the staff on the other platform to let you back in). Either way hassle you probably want to avoid ;)

[SantaFe1970]

What I mean is, if you get on the wrong Ginza line platform at some stations, the only way to get to the other one is to go back out through the ticket barrier, up the stairs and over the street. Unfortunately, if you mistakenly enter a station and want to go back out (unless you have a day ticket or commuter pass), you'll need to get the barrier staff to process each card/ticket manually (though if you're a group they might just let you through en masse and tell the staff on the other platform to let you back in). Either way hassle you probably want to avoid ;)

 

A-ha, now I understand the issue. I'll try to be careful. It will help that we will be traveling with my Japanese colleague. The general plan is for her to walk point when we are navigating through the city, while I walk at the end of the gaggle making sure nobody strays. Usually on these trips each day a different student, or pair of students, is responsible for managing maps, itinerary, signs in stations, etc. Part of the learning experience. We will NOT be doing this in Tokyo this year. 

[westfalen]

I'll go along with what some of the others have said about the last few days in Tokyo.  Travelling around the Tokyo suburban area can be time consuming and the time can slip away without you realising, especially if you say "I'll just spend an hour in Tokyu Hands or Yodabashi Camera" (not to mention the hobby shops) :confused5: .  In 12 trips I've never seen everything I've planned to see in Tokyo.

[SantaFe1970]

I'll go along with what some of the others have said about the last few days in Tokyo.  Travelling around the Tokyo suburban area can be time consuming and the time can slip away without you realising, especially if you say "I'll just spend an hour in Tokyu Hands or Yodabashi Camera" (not to mention the hobby shops) :confused5: .  In 12 trips I've never seen everything I've planned to see in Tokyo.

 

"Twas ever thus." I never fly/drive/head home from a travel adventure without thinking -- we did so much, we left behind so much to do. This trip, I would be surprised if we got in the Rikugien Gardens on Day 7 and on Day 9 the Imperial Gardens. And as far as shopping goes, you won't be surprised to learn that the young people on this group trip are looking forward to Harajuko and Akihabara. If there's any place where group discipline might waver, with the possibility of deliberate schedule sabotage, it might well be there...

 

And 12 trips to Japan/Tokyo? I congratulate you. 

[railsquid]

You ought to try living here... There was a time when I enjoyed occasional trips to Akihabara to look at computer-related stuff, but since I (re)discovered model railways I have to ration my time there... Harajuku you can keep though, I lived there for a short time (for reasons too complex to go into here) and as I'm not into young fashion its attractiveness was always limited (I'm a dab hand at getting from Harajuku station to the bottom end of Takeshita-dori without going down Takeshita-dori itself, which was the quickest way to where I was living but impassable at certain hours).

[SantaFe1970]

Harajuku you can keep though

 

Agreed. After maybe purchasing some items for my daughters, I expect to be done early. Maybe some trip participants and I will choose to spend more time at the Meiji shrine...