Silhouette Cutter/Plotter

[cteno4]

ok damn Todd for bringing this neat little unit to our attention (from his wife actually) in his Ochanomizu layout thread 

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/9836-just-thinking/?do=findComment&comment=111856

 

I thought i would start a dedicated thread tot he cutter to keep his layout clear of detail cutter questions and such.

 

These are basically plotters that have a knife instead of a pen (but these can also take pens as well for fun stuff below). This lets you cut out shapes from paper, fabric, thin styrene, thin chipboards, cardstock etc up to about 020" in thickness. with them you can do very similar cutouts that a 2D lasercutter can do, but has a limit on thickness and also very tiny details which are limited by the size of the blade tip. These 2D plotter cutters have been around a long time, but mainly in the professional, larger format markets for cutting out vinyl for lettering and patterns for graphic panels and paint masking. All were out of the reach of the normal hobbyist market.

 

A few years back i looked hard at the plotter cutters out there that were coming mainly for the scrapbooking markets. The big drawback was that most of them were made for the growing scrap booking market and so were set up to make designs and cuts for this sort of process, usually using cartridges or dedicated software that had the patterns in them to do the cutting. this makes them pretty useless for doing your own stuff. There wee some models sub $500 (mainly from china) that could use a pc for direct control, but reviewers had issues with the software, file compatibility, were PC only, quality issues, and lack of part availability. I kind of gave up looking and meant to look back again after a while as i expected better, more flexible options would come along. well life got in the way and just now seeing what appeared with the Silhouette cutters which came out a couple of years ago just after i stopped looking!

 

The Silhouette has two models. The Portrait at 8.5" wide (cuts out to 8" wide) at $140 and the Cameo, a full 12" wide material/cutting machine at $270. The only difference between them seems to be the width of the cut, nothing else as far as ive been able to see from blogs out there on these.

 

http://www.scrapbookupdate.com/2014/09/15/silhouette-cameo-vs-silhouette-portrait/

 

The consumable in these are the blades. Apparently the stock Silhouette blades are cranky, hard to clean out and dont last very long and are not cheap ($6-10 ea). But luckily you can buy a nice aluminum blade holder on ebay for $20 along with 10 professional plotter cutter blades that fit in the holder. These appear to be better quality blades and much easier to clean out than the Silhouette blades.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CB09-Graphtec-Blade-Holder-10-pc-45-degree-Blades-for-Graphtec-Cutting-Plotter-/171276698056?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27e0e301c8

 

while these are not capable of cutting thicker materials, for most of our N scale modeling needs on buildings and train cars, 010 material is still 1.5" thick scale and most details are at that or not much more, so just doubling and layering will work well like sankei does with their laser cut models. You can also just score with the blade as well to make things like brick mortars and other pavement patterns with a tad of real depth tho them.

 

The other great options are the use of pens in the plotter/cutter as well. this lets you do lines for various things like rock work, brick, window mullions. road lines. They also have silver and white ink pens which on clear acetate will allow nice window mullions -- these are almost white or silver and you can print those with laser printers or inkjet printers. This also means you can do printed roads on interesting colored papers and get white road markings (doing this with regular printers required you to only use white papers to get white road markings]. This might also work on inkjet decal paper to create white, silver or gold decal lines that you cant make easily as well with regular printers.

 

I am such a super happy camper to stumble on this from Todds post! Im ordering a portrait tonight and cant wait to start laying with it! I can see all sorts of great modeling uses for this and its at a very reasonable price. If it does half what i think it might be able to do that i want to do it will be well well worth the price!

 

cheers

 

jeff

Edited March 16, 2015 by cteno4

[ToniBabelony]

Thanks for the information! I've been looking at methods to create my own rolling stocks from scratch and this seems to be the most cost-effective way of doing it.

 

Recently, 3D printing of model trains has been on the rise in Japan and I wouldn't be surprised if within 5 years, this will become the next trend. You basically need the data of the model, order it to be printed (maybe modify it to your own needs) and you have your own custom made model with very little effort. However, printing of one model costs about ¥4000 per shell, making it a pretty expensive affair in the long run.

 

A little idea I'm having regarding this, is to combine the techniques of plotting, 3d printing and home moulding together to create a modular system for creating your own trains:

- 3D modeling and printing of different parts (fronts, custom air conditioners, small details, etc.) and then moulding them with simple home-based latex moulds. I'm not sure how often these can be used, but from what I've seen, the detail is pretty decent. These kits can be bought in large general hobby shops, like Tōkyū Hands;

- Plotting the sides of trains from either sturdy paper or plastic sheet, as well as plotting or printing stickers that can be applied later;

- Bogies, motors and details that are readily available don't need to be modeled;

 

I think this is a nice alternative for when you want to create a bigger fleet of trains with either a fictional or fictive origin. Especially with the modern modular designs, this is very good to do. The models can be crude and simple or very detailed, depending on the final effort you want to put in. It's basically Greenmax Economy kitbashing, without bashing the kit.

 

It's still all a thought, but I'm very sure this is feasible.

[cteno4]

Yes this is exactly the way i think a lot of this stuff will be going by doing a mixed lot of things. Sankei is great with the laser cut 2D and works great except for a few 3D details and this is where doing small bits 3D printed would really finish them off very nicely.

 

The big advantage here to the home hobbyist is that the 2D design is really simple for anyone to do. Even with layering its not a huge jump to create 2 or 3 layers to get more 3D effect w/o being a CAD wiz. Even though CAD has gotten easier, its still a steeper learning curve to get good and fast at it. I've seen a scad of folks get super excited over the years (lots recently with 3D printing) in doing 3D cad and go into it whole hog only to get really frustrated fast and many give up. The software will get better and easier to use, but going into that 3rd dimension is always adding a whole conceptual and interface challenge to deal with. So much of what we need to do is really simper 2D really and then layer it. So many buildings can be done very easily in 2D bits and at a really reduced cost compared to 3D printing at N scale where you need the higher resolution printing to get scale detail. 

 

Most of what is needed for doing lots of train modeling stuff is doing curved cuts and cutting out rectangular windows cleanly and consistantly. Yes ive done a lot of this by hand, but its very hard to get these consistent and one tiny slip and damn you are starting over (Been there done that too may times). also just getting things perfectly parallel when cutting out bits. yes you can do this by hand, but again one tiny slip or mis mark on a measurement and you are off and at N scale that tiny off parallel can be noticeable as it can be a few inches scale...

 

I really do see this as so much more accessible to many hobbyists than other systems out there. Eventually high res 3D printing will come down for the machines, but the consumables for the liquid polymer systems will always not be cheap in small quantities, require a lot of cleaning up and care.

 

cool thing also here is the ability to create a bit of some idea and quickly test it out. if it works just scale it up. Later want more just do another run in the cutter! Also once you build up that set of basic items like doors, windows, walls, etc you can then easily cut and paste up most of the things necessary for a new structure! Materials can also be used that are precolored and textured so that they can just assemble.

 

The new snap scan thing they have is a neat system to take a picture of your item and then go in and create a cut template to cut out all the bits. think of all those tomytec, tomix and kato sticker sheets and carefully cutting out tiny signs and such... now bam done! we can share these files so folks can just shove the stickers in and cut them out. plus you can just scribe thru the sticker and not backing so even easer to pull off stickers to place!

 

Im sounding lazy, but I see this as a way to do a lot more, with more accuracy and get really playful that just wont happen with hand cutting unless you have a lot of time and patience!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[cteno4]

ok pulled the trigger and bought a portrait and a few extras. should be here wednesday!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[tossedman]

Gotta fess up. I bought the Silhouette cameo for my wife a couple of years ago. Might have been an ulterior motive but you can't prove it.

 

I also supported a kickstarter campaign last year and have one of these on the way. https://printm3d.com/themicro

 

Cheers eh,

 

Todd

Edited March 17, 2015 by tossedman

[cteno4]

Also ordered one of the CB09U blade holders as those blades look much better and cheaper and easier to clean. i think the silhouette blade is only a 45.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Graphtec-CB09U-silhouette-cameo-craftrobo-cutting-plotter-blade-holder-10-knife-/181413605762

 

http://paperpulse.blogspot.com/2013/06/a-better-and-less-expensive-blade.html

 

of course like all power tools its the accessories that end up costing you in the long run!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[ToniBabelony]

Awesome! That was quick! Please let us know how everything works out, as I'm sure I'm not the only one as well interested in getting this, or a similar machine.

 

It looks like in Japan the Silhouette Portrait isn't available through the major suppliers, but the Cameo is (around ¥30,000). It's strange, as Silhouette is a sub-company of Graphtec, a Japanese company. The Portrait is however for sale here (around ¥20,000), but it's not on any Japanese website of a Graphtec related company. The supplied software seems also to be English only, so the Portrait looks like it's purely aimed at the export market. *sigh*

[tossedman]

I'm going to order the CB09U blade holder as well. Cheaper is always good and money spent on power tools is never wasted, right?

 

Toni, does the silhouette studio software differ for the portrait and the Cameo. Can you download it from Silhouette's Japanese site?

 

Todd

Edited March 17, 2015 by tossedman

[ToniBabelony]

Toni, does the silhouette studio software differ for the portrait and the Cameo. Can you download it from Silhouette's Japanese site?

 

From what I see, the software looks to be compatible for both machines. I probably would go for the smaller Portrait, as I have a bit of a space constraint going on, it's cheaper, plus I like the English language software. I can work with Japanese language software (I use it on a daily basis), but I'm more proficient in English, it's not too much of a problem for me personally.

[cteno4]

Ugh oh! Todd you have started an infection here! I think there will be a few in jrm that will want one as well!

 

Toni you should be able to just download the studio software from the U.S. website. Only difference between the two is cut size and that the cameo has a sd card slot where you can load in files w.o the computer attached.

 

From reading blogs it appears the units are built pretty well with folks using them quite heavily. This is another big plus as this sort of equipment at this price points usually tend to be pretty light duty usually.

 

Fun fun fun!

 

Jeff

[Claude_Dreyfus]

There is a very active thread on another forum (RMWeb) about the Silhouette cutter...

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/79025-a-guide-to-using-the-silhouette-cameo-cutter/

 

Plenty of experience being shared there. As I mentioned on Todd's thread, our club have one of these cutters, and whilst it has not had heavy use as yet, it has given some impressive initial results.

[tossedman]

There is a very active thread on another forum (RMWeb) about the Silhouette cutter...

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/79025-a-guide-to-using-the-silhouette-cameo-cutter/

 

Plenty of experience being shared there. As I mentioned on Todd's thread, our club have one of these cutters, and whilst it has not had heavy use as yet, it has given some impressive initial results.

That was one of my main sources of information/inspiration. Time for you to try that thing out Claude.

[cteno4]

yeah the chap who started the thread does a whole tutorial on making a small HO scale structure. very nicely done, the guy writes computer documentation so a really great presentation in the thread!

 

loads of info all over ive run across in the last few days!

 

jeff

[ToniBabelony]

Ah yes, I've come across that thread as well! It gives great inspiration for working with layers. Looking at Japanese brass EMU/DMU kits also give a heap of ideas for this purpose.

[cteno4]

while ive seen folks say this will not cut brass, apparently some jewelers and woodworkers are cutting thin sterling silver with it. but silver is very soft compared to brass...

 

cant wait to start seeing what this dude will do! want to try veneers as well, i have a load of them. might work well for older wooden buildings.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[tossedman]

Jeff, have you unpacked your Silhouette yet? Just wondering what software you're planning on using to design your cut outs with. The Silhouette Studio or something different?

 

Cheers eh,

 

Todd

[cteno4]

Todd,

 

It's been sitting there laughing at me! I've had a little pile of work to get thru the last week. I am also in the middle of doing a move to a new computer so I've been having to move and sort thru about 2.5tb of data

 

The new blade holder just showed up as well! I think the 60 degree blades will be nice on the smaller stuff.

 

I am hoping to get it cutting in the next day or so!

 

Just realize this can hopefully cut some vinyl masks for the himiko water bus windows, this may be perfect!

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10222644n3/40/3#

 

Jeff

[cteno4]

Bigger 12" is on sale for $199 today only with a lot of extras, wish I had gotten it, my smaller one is still sitting there laughing at me as I have not set it up yet due to no time with some family emergencies.

 

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NAX7H78/ref=gbsl_tit_l-1_8122_c98e3d00?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_t=701&pf_rd_s=left-new-1&pf_rd_r=15G75J2RGA70PEQEGKGJ&pf_rd_i=20&pf_rd_p=2063978122

 

 

Jeff

[tossedman]

Jeff did you get the CB09U blade holder that you ordered yet? Mine still hasn't arrived.

 

That's a good deal on the 12" Silhouette. You'd best get yours up and running before the warranty runs out. 

 

Todd

Edited April 29, 2015 by tossedman

[cteno4]

Todd, yes i really need to, life has just gotten in the way here. I keep thinking of ideas!

 

Jeff

[Carlos Filipe]

Apologise in advance for my ignorance.

I've noticed this machine before, but didn't paid much attention as it is a silhouette cutter. So in my simplistic understanding, doesn't recognize voids such as windows, the most disappointing thing, when doen wrong.

My initial enthusiasm as it seems that doesn't require any prep work as with other cutting plotters dwindled with this assumption:it doesn't cut voids.

Could you please  tell if I'm wrong? 

I am a paper modeller, this for me would be a present from heaven...

[cteno4]

Carlos,

 

Not sure what you mean by not cutting voids.

 

The silhouette is basically a plotter cutter. It can cut any cuts you desire in your sheet. The software lets you choose your cut lines to cut out windows, walls, etc from your stock. It can do multiple passes at cuts at different pressures. I hope to get mine going in the next couple of weeks to do paper modeling.

 

The software also lets you take a scanned image and auto trace and apply your own cut lines where you desire and then you can print out the image with registration marks (or scan original art on the cutting matte with the registration marks on there) and then the cutter will adjust to the registration marks for doing the cuts. This way you can easily cut out pre printed or PDF cardstock models.

 

Take a look on YouTube there are lots of videos there of how to use the silhouette and its features.

 

I'm hoping it will do the tedious bits like cutting out windows in walls that can be so hard to do by hand repeatidly.

 

Jeff

[Darklighter]

A new machine is coming in fall, the Curio: http://www.silhouetteamerica.com/shop/machines/curio

Do you think it's worth the wait and the surcharge? (for structure building)

In Germany, the Portrait costs 134 Euros and the Cameo 298 Euros. I guess the Curio would cost 200-250 Euros.

Hence, I'm thinking of getting a Portrait.

[cteno4]

Interesting! Will be interesting to see how deep it can cut! For most structures the portrait is big enough I think. But you do need to layer more as it can't cut thicker chip boards or stryene. But that's a snap with the machine to just duplicate a wall and potentially more places to layer on details. Cameo is nice if you want to use the standard 12x12 scrapbooking stock mainly.

 

Jeff

[ToniBabelony]

Bump! Because I've decided to drop the OLO 3d printer like a brick and wait for something better to come out (and less experimental), I've decided to take the plunge and invest in a reasonable plotter cutter.

 

Recently, the Silhouette Curio came out, but I've decided on getting a Silhouette Portrait instead. The Curio is very nice, as it can cut into 5.0mm material, whereas the Portrait is limited to 0.8mm. No big deal, since I intend to use it on styrene and cardboard anyway. The Portrait can also be tuned with 3rd party materials to do etching and embossing like the Curio, so there is practically no need to get that one.

 

As for the Cameo, I'd like to get that one, but three reasons for me not to get it is that it's too big, too expensive, and it can do practically the same as the Portrait. Almost all supplies/additions are interchangeable and there are 3rd party upgrade parts as well.

 

Anyway, I hope to receive it in a few weeks, as I'm forced to import it from the USA. In Japan, only the Cameo is readily available for a ridiculous price. I'm very very curious to see what I can achieve with this machine and see what can be created with it in combination with 3D printed materials and such.