Minimum radius power chassis

[velotrain]

I realize virtually everyone on JNS is primarily interested in mainline modeling, but wondered if anyone explores minimum radius / micro layouts?

 

Specifically, I wondered if any of you know the minimum radius for either of these power chassis?

 

 

Tsugaw Yokou TU-7T

 

http://tinyurl.com/n7wj4dk

 

 

 

Pro-Hobby Ca-ND-1

 

http://tinyurl.com/l5erc43

 

 

 

I'm also interested in any bogie power chassis with a tight minimum radius, guessing that those under the Shortie power units might be the winners.  Many of the trams handle the Tomix 103 mm curves, but I'm wondering how much - if any - tighter can these or the Shortie units go?

 

By way of comparison, here is a photo from a German guy testing the Busch HOf chassis (6.5 mm - Z track). 

Looks like about 57 mm.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cteno4]

Velotran,

 

They should go pretty small. I've got both of those, if I get a chance this weekend I'll put them on a piece of flex track and see how tight I can run them.

 

I can hear some ideas simmering up in your head! Will be fun to see what you are thinking about

 

Jeff

[velotrain]

I can hear some ideas simmering up in your head!

 

 

Jeff -

 

a)  the obvious

 

b)  nothing in particular - at the moment

 

Charles

[velotrain]

That had been a    " b "   " ) "  -  little did I know.

 

Any way to turn those guys off?  I don't see anything in my profile.

[katoftw]

It does say about it only taking 4.5 volt.  So you will have to investigate a power supply option other than the big names.

[tossedman]

Velotrain have you seen this thread?

[velotrain]

 

It does say about it only taking 4.5 volt.  So you will have to investigate a power supply option other than the big names.

 

Oh, I don't know.

 

I'd say Energizer, Duracell, Panasonic and Eveready are all big names.

 

 

Velotrain have you seen this thread?

 

Yes - not really what I'm interested in, which is more of a short train than a novelty.

[cteno4]

They work fine with regular power supplies, just use the lower range. I run them with a kato power pack with no issues. Tomytec battery throttle does work better with a wider throttle range.

 

Jeff

[velotrain]

There's also this - which I know nothing of:

 

http://www.tgauge.com/product/261/22/hand-held-pwm-controller

 

The controls look less than ergonomic . . . . 

 

 

I have a hand-held controller with a 9-volt battery made by a Hungarian fellow, but can't recall where I got it.

[cteno4]

Hmm looks interesting! The big new pwm t gauge throttle works very well, wonder how this mini version does? I'll habe to talk to Ardesh and get the skinny on it,meh has not listed it yet.

 

Jeff

[velotrain]

Jeff - as I recall, Ardesh is at Trainaidsa?  I bought my T stuff from the UK, as even with the much higher shipping, it was less after the VAT was subtracted.

 

My memory is that this is an exclusive distribution arrangement with Z-Track.

 

Although, at one point I had contacted the guy in Budapest who built them, and he was willing to sell me maybe a half-dozen direct.

 

Don't know what "meh" is - other than meaning "I'm not impressed".

 

Since it's designed for small engines, I have to believe the PWM is not harmful to the motors.

 

Although, you would need to control how far you turn the knob for pager motors.

 

Kind of makes me wonder why they don't all just include resistance like Kato does - sure would simplify things.

[kvp]

The maximal voltage is pulsed, so you must measure the throttle voltage at maximum power and check if your motor could tolerate that. Slower speeds are achived by switching this on and off and that means the motor will get the full voltage or nothing, switched several (thousand) times a second.

 

If you have a higher voltage PWM throttle and want to drive a lower voltage motor, you can decrease the input voltage, but below a certain voltage the circuit won't work. The second alternative is to use silicon diodes connected back to back in pairs and added serially to one of the feed wires. Each diode drops around 0.7V of voltage, so if you have a 12V pwm throttle and want to go down to 4.5V, 11 diode pairs will be needed. Choose higher current diodes than what's needed, so they could dissipate the excess power. This works fine with most pwm controllers, just make sure the diodes can operate at the frequency of the pwm signal. (normal 50Hz diodes might have a problem with a 2000 Hz signal)

 

It's possible to combine the two, like swapping a 16V DC input to a 8V DC one and dropping the rest on the output with diodes. Just make sure the input voltage stays above the minimal input voltage of the PWM circuit.

 

ps: Some trains with low voltage motors have the diodes or a similar regulator circuit on board, so they can be driven by normal controller.

[cteno4]

Yes Ardesh is Trainaids, very good chap and been great a provider of odd bits as well.

 

Sorry meh is iPad poking error... Was wondering if he was going to carry it.

 

The kato portram has a power regulating circuit built in to down regulate for the pager motors. Does a nice job of it.

 

On the tgw and pro hobby, no worries about over voltage as they fly off the track before the get too much!

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[velotrain]

^{I have a somewhat related question (at least in my mind) and didn't want to start a new topic.}

^{Were any models produced of small/short shunting diesels from the JNR era?  I expect there were at the time, but I suspect they also reflected the prevailing quality at the time.}

^{I'm looking for something with smooth slow-speed running that might be available at the various auction sites.}

[ToniBabelony]

^{I have a somewhat related question (at least in my mind) and didn't want to start a new topic.}

^{Were any models produced of small/short shunting diesels from the JNR era?  I expect there were at the time, but I suspect they also reflected the prevailing quality at the time.}

^{I'm looking for something with smooth slow-speed running that might be available at the various auction sites.}

 

The DD13, DD16 and DE10 are your friends. Yes, these are all engines with two bogies and AFAIK there are no smaller ones available as either major series prototypes and/or easy to obtain models. IIRC even DD51s were/are used in switching services.

[velotrain]

Thanks Toni - I guess I was thinking there might have been an earlier model in the JNR days that had since been retired.  My sense is that all of these are still working (?)   Although none of them look particularly modern, on the other hand they don't look especially dated either.

 

Am I right in believing that the DD16 has the shortest wheelbase, if not overall length?

 

 

 

Did JNR ever have anything like this?  I have a fondness for Jackshaft drives.  I was surprised to learn that they were only withdrawn last year.

 

 

 

I was thinking I could pretend that one was shipped over for trials  ;-)

[velotrain]

Toni or anyone - is the Kato DD16 significantly better than the MicroAce version in details and/or operating characteristics to justify the substantial price difference?

 

 

[velotrain]

Toni or anyone - is the Kato DD16 significantly better than the MicroAce version in details and/or operating characteristics to justify the substantial price difference?

 

 

Well, after looking at images of both on HS, my initial assessment is this:

 

The superstructures look about the same, although the detail on the MicroAce might be a little crisper.

 

Kato has far better railings, deck surface, and under-deck detail - including truck sideframes,

 

MicroAce (Otaru-Chikko District) has better paint, cab interior, and roof detail - although, the ice-breaker is overly thick along with the handrails

 

I'm guessing that the Kato drive is better - based on general reputation.

 

The Kato is close to twice as much on U.S. eBay, but HS is showing them at about the same price.

 

 

Maybe I should buy both and merge the best of each?  ;-)

 

 

 

               

[utrainia]

I'm guessing that the Kato drive is better - based on general reputation.

 

I don't own the MicroAce version, but the Kato model is amazing. It purrs round my R103 track without a complaint and has excellent slow speed performance. I almost want to get another, it is so good. Highly recommended wee beastie.

 

[velotrain]

If that's your layout, very fine scenery work - is that real dirt?

Somehow the buried ties seem almost un-Japanese ;-)

 

I'm curious - I suspect the Kato cab has just as fine detail as the MicroAce, but the latter looks more attractive due to the bright green paint.  From the images I've seen, the Kato cab is painted in a dark color so is not very visible.

 

One thing I noticed in particular is that the MicroAce air-tank is rather crude, while the Kato one even has the piping to it.

 

However, MicroAce has painted the front edge of the steps white, but Kato didn't bother. 

[utrainia]

If that's your layout, very fine scenery work - is that real dirt?

Somehow the buried ties seem almost un-Japanese ;-)

 

Thanks, it is dyed Chinchilla sand, i.e. very fine pale sand that you buy for your Chinchilla to bathe in (apparently). Works great as N scale dirt, sand, ballast and general texture though! This module is a mix of inspirations; the buildings and scenery are mostly Black Sea, Georgia/Ukraine area, but there is more than a passing nod to rural Japanese branch lines and the Kyushu :-)

 

 

 

I'm curious - I suspect the Kato cab has just as fine detail as the MicroAce, but the latter looks more attractive due to the bright green paint.  From the images I've seen, the Kato cab is painted in a dark color so is not very visible.

 

The Kato cab is the same colour as the top of the hoods.