1/160 and 1/150

[cteno4]

Jrcrunch meant that the same train in 1/150 will be 6.7% larger than it would be in 1/160.

 

Unfortunately that picture is all wrong in that they are not tomytec models as labeled (which are correctly scaled at 1/150) but actually cheap Chinese architectural model detail parts that are more like 1/144 scale In reality (they mix ok as not that much difference between them and 1/150 tomytec). I've never precisely scaled the wiking vehicles, but all of them I have seemed a tad smaller than all the other 1/160 vehicles I've had. So this was taking the extremes and putting the side by side and it makes the difference seem huge. Vehicles are the one place where you will notice the difference the most as we have a very set size in our heads for them and lost of visual cues for us to quickly scale them.

 

With tr trains you don't notice as much and the shinkansens (larger trains to begin with) don't look small and if you are running more prototypically they will never be next to a 1/150 train anyway.

 

You are correct that the diorama would be all at 1/150 and the Shinkansen train would be at 1/160 and the non Shinkansen track would be at n gauge and not the correct z gauge for those trains at 1/150 scale running on them. It ain't perfect, but a practical compromise. Like Mudkip said I usually never notice the Shinkansen size issue at 1/160. The viaduct track is not perfect scale in the viaduct dimensions,miss a bit stylized so there is at least 5% fudge already there. Track on the viaduct is in correct gauge/scale for the shinkansens (although w.o hand laying rail and turning all your wheels and flanges down you won't hage perfect N scale rail anyway anywhere, it's alway larger to be more practical running wise and robustness especially with sectional track)

 

I can see the difference between the n gauge and z gauge (correct gauge for Japanese 1/150 cape gauge trains) track on non Shinkansen trains compared to the prototype, but am willing to give that up as its that or not have them at all as regauging the trains is a huge effort.

 

Japanese modeling had to do this because of having two track gauges to deal with. If they did them all at 1/160 and then did n gauge track for the shinkansens and z gauge tracks for all the rest of the cape gauge stock things would have been pretty close to perfect scale wise. But this would have meant selling 2 track systems and more fiddly and probably not as good running cape gauge stock on the z gauge track as most Japanese track is temporary setups and on not perfectly flat surfaces. It's a compromise. If you want to be perfectly prototypical you are then in a pickle.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

Edited February 18, 2015 by cteno4

[E6系]

...

 

 They were downsized to the european N standard of 1:160. This means correct body to track ratio and they fit into the same stations and platforms that are used by the 1:150 cape gauge trains.

 

...

 

 

This is the correct answer. 

 

Also, a side note: most N gauge Japanese trains run on kyōki (1,067mm).  Of course, at 1:150 this would require 7.1mm track.  The closest equivalent is 6.5mm used for Z gauge.  Some Japanese modellers scratch build everything and even convert the bogies to 6.5mm.  You can read a little about it in English here: http://www.ve3ho.ca/Nn3/tomytec-chassis-conversion.html

[railsquid]

Surely there must be some group of ultra-purists who look down on the 6.5mm re-gaugers and who scratchbuild their own track? I.e. some Japanese equivalent of the 2mm Scale Association? Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Ken Ford]

I've run across websites showing people that have done just that - 7.1mm gauge.

[marknewton]

 how about japanese HO? 1/87 shinkansens and 1/80 for local trains.. i guess same applies

No, the same doesn't apply. Our Kato E5 is 1/80th scale, and the others that I've had a look at or read about are also 1/80th scale, such as the Zoukei Mura Series O and the Bachmann/Tenshodo Series 500.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[jrcrunch]

No, the same doesn't apply. Our Kato E5 is 1/80th scale, and the others that I've had a look at or read about are also 1/80th scale, such as the Zoukei Mura Series O and the Bachmann/Tenshodo Series 500.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

 

went to tokyo and it is 1/87. i asked for 1/80 but they said 1/87 for shinkansens. 

 

you can also check here http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10236910

[railsquid]

Kato also lists its E5 as being 1/87: "日本最速の新幹線として話題のE5系東北新幹線〈はやぶさ〉。走らせるHO新幹線をコンセプトに1/87で製品化。"

http://www.katomodels.com/ho/e5kei/

 

The Kato catalogue describes "HO" as being 1:80 or 1:87, whereas the Tomix one (no Shinkansens) lists 1:80 only.

[katoftw]

The agruements and moaning about what scale models should and shouldn't be is pointless.  In the end, the manufacturers have decided for you and released the model how they deem fit.  If you don't like they way they have done it, then I'd suggest taking up golf.

Edited February 22, 2015 by katoftw

[cteno4]

Kato,

 

Just because this is of no difference to you it does not discount it as a something of interest to others. We all find a different combination of things enjoyable in the hobby and should respect others combinations even if they are not our own tastes. If this discussion is pointless to you then please just ignore it.

 

I see value in this discussion to enlighten folks on these issues and the alternatives if you'd like to be very true to scale (and some do).

 

Jeff

[katoftw]

Jeff, I did not comment on alternatives or solutions.  I commented on agruements and moaning regards scaling by manufacturers.  Sorry.

Edited February 23, 2015 by katoftw

[spacecadet]

I do think you can go a little nuts with this, as you can with any hobby. To each their own, though - it's a hobby, so if somebody is unsatisfied with the way their trains look, they should fix it if that's what makes them happy.

 

Personally it bothers me a little bit but not enough to do surgery on my trains; I'm more worried about stuff like easily visible parts on my trains being missing (as in not even modeled at all), parts painted the wrong color, or whatever. Stuff that's easily fixable but Kato and Tomix just don't do it. The gauge thing is kind of just an unfortunate but necessary compromise because of Japan's two track standards. You can always *only* model shinkansen...

 

There's always going to be *something* that doesn't look quite right at these scales anyway.. that's just the way it is when working in miniature.

[jrcrunch]

katoftw,

 

if you dont like what's being posted here then dont waste your time on this thread

 

 

** i have a 1/80 and made me interested in getting 1/80 trains then i saw 1/150 which is cheaper and easier to collect. i want to have shinkansens too, even if they are 1/160 they are hard to resist but i still wish they are 1/150

[Ken Ford]

jrcrunch, I'm pretty picky about scale appearance - but the visual difference between 1/150 and 1/160 doesn't bother me much because the prototypes are so different in size and generally don't run side by side.  The gauge issue bothers me a lot more than the scale issue...

[Martijn Meerts]

 

** i have a 1/80 and made me interested in getting 1/80 trains then i saw 1/150 which is cheaper and easier to collect. i want to have shinkansens too, even if they are 1/160 they are hard to resist but i still wish they are 1/150

 

 

For H0, there is an actual correct scale and gauge, but most of the models are brass (either in kit form or pre-built), so they're not cheap. They are however 1/87 scale running on 12mm track.

[ToniBabelony]

For me personally, I like scale accuracy a lot, especially when it's done on a small layout. However, I will also endorse comically out of scale proportions when it's done well.

 

As for my own projects, it's too much of an investment to convert all of my 1067mm stock to 6.5mm Nm rails and buy matching track. Though, if I could, I probably would. The big downside however would be that I wouldn't be able to run my trains at friends' or rental layouts. I would only be able to bring my 1435mm gauge fleet...

[Gordon Werner]

1372 mm is actually the old Japanese tram gauge standard, so if you have an N scale classic tram in 1:150, then the 9mm track is nicely in scale for it.

 

great ... so my Modemo Arakawa trams are to scale & gauge then. bonus!