Japanese Modellers - Freeform or Prototypical?

[scott]

Thanks to this group, I've gotten to understand some of the Japanese approach to layout design, but--overall, do most rail modelers *in Japan* tend to model a particular place or line, or are they more likely to just "run what they like" on a generically Japanese-looking layout?

[Tenorikuma]

Most of my knowledge comes from reading the magazines here and seeing what people are up to at hobby stores, but my impression is that the non-realistic modellers are even more casual than North American modellers, operating purely with temporary Unitrack or Fine Track layouts, pre-built structures, and snap-together street modules — which all looks generically Japanese. On the other hand, those with permanent layouts seem more serious about modelling real Japanese lines and do a lot of scratchbuilding to build trains they need that aren't available commercially.

[scott]

scratchbuilding to build trains

 

[boggle]

 

Especially given the incredible variety of Japanese train models compared to US models....

[SubwayHypes]

i wish i could do prototype specific modeling but to be honest there is just too many cool trains and possiblities so i run a hybrid layout.  also lots of good layouts i see on youtube seem to be able to cater to several prototypes.  for example, on jummamitts layout he will run only Keikyu one day, then run another set of trains the next.    while he runs only prototype specifics each time, he can easily swap out and run other lines on the same layout.

 

thats why i try to do with my layout.  but most of the time its a mix and mash of different lines that probably will never run next to eachother in real life!

[disturbman]

@Subway:  do you have any link to illustrate your sayings?

[scott]

That's sort of the situation I've found myself in. Our layout isn't going to be prototypical anything, except for being a prime example of the kind of mishmash I tend to create. Still, I think it'll be fairly passable as a railroad setting.

 

But while it's easy to make Amtrak work as a mishmash, and my European stuff is all from adjacent countries, the Japanese collection is from all over the map. If anything, it's starting to center on the central Japan and the east coast...

 

500 Shinkansen (shhh, the kid doesn't know we have this yet)........Tokyo south to Fukuoka

281 Haruka ............................................................................Kansai - Osaka - Kyoto - Maibara

115 (Minobu Line)....................................................................Fuji - Kofu

Gakunan "Akagaeru" ................................................................Fuji

 

And there's the outlier, the ED75 that would run in northern Honshu, which, in landscape/scenery terms, is where I'd rather model. But I don't have any coaches for it yet, and it sounds like an EF81 would be more "correct."

 

So I dunno. I either need to sell almost everything and start over with Tohoku stuff, or cave in to modelling urbanized/industrial areas, or just bag reality and geographical awareness and just run whatever. Or something.  

[disturbman]

Bag it and please yourself. If you like it missmatched, don't go all the other way round.

[CaptOblivious]

I like themes; it helps keep my model collecting under control, and makes for attainable goals.

 

Scott: I would suggest perhaps circumscribing two regions you'd like to model, perhaps one region would be the area you just described (south of Tokyo), and the other would be AC electrified regions in northern Honshu. Then do like the fellow Subway mentioned, and just run one set of trains in a session, if you like coherence :D

[scott]

Scott: I would suggest perhaps circumscribing two regions you'd like to model, perhaps one region would be the area you just described (south of Tokyo), and the other would be AC electrified regions in northern Honshu. Then do like the fellow Subway mentioned, and just run one set of trains in a session, if you like coherence :D

 

 

Hmmm...this sounds like a recipe for collecting a lot more trains.... 

[ChrisV]

You am me both.

I am planning a larger layout at the moment. It will be mostly kato twin rail viaducts in a dog bone style set up with a lower loop and hopefully a tram line one day.

I want to run trains based on the Tokaido & Sanyo Shinkansens lines but alas I now have Tohoku "max" Shinkansens in my fleet which throws that idea out the window. And now with the arrival of 800 and 400 Shinkansens plus a haruka the whole concept of my layout is now fantasy!

 

Anyway I am just having fun mucking around as the kato unitrack is so easy to use and its lack of permanence makes it fun to try different things and just enjoy the hobby instead of getting caught up in the finer details. time frames , rivet counting etc!

[bc6]

As much as Id like to prototype it aint happening any time soon. I like both Japanese and American prototypes and there's no way to mix them in reality. Thats why there's the imagination where you can run an Amtrak P42 next to a JR500, thank goodness I don't have to settle for either or. Personally I like fictional railroads better than counting rivets. However there's a flip side to this, I recently purchased a Eizan Electric Railroad 900 Series Kirara (orange) Tram and feel somewhat compelled to model a short portion of its route go figure.

[scott]

I recently purchased a Eizan Electric Railroad 900 Series Kirara (orange) Tram and feel somewhat compelled to model a short portion of its route go figure.

 

I've been thinking about doing something similar with a Japanese tram--maybe I could go all prototypical with T-trak module and just free-form everything else...

 

 

Chris--I'd offer to trade shinkansen trains with you, but I can't seem to give up the 500.    Plus I'm leaning toward an E3 if I eventually do more northern stuff.

[Guest ___]

i wish i could do prototype specific modeling but to be honest there is just too many cool trains and possiblities so i run a hybrid layout.   also lots of good layouts i see on youtube seem to be able to cater to several prototypes.  for example, on jummamitts layout he will run only Keikyu one day, then run another set of trains the next.    while he runs only prototype specifics each time, he can easily swap out and run other lines on the same layout.

 

thats why i try to do with my layout.   but most of the time its a mix and mash of different lines that probably will never run next to eachother in real life!

 

I noticed that in Japan too, a lot of the die-hards tend to build their layouts based on not a specific geographical location, but as to much of things they like and do not like. It's sorta like creating their own miniature kingdom. There's that wonderful display they have in Omiya at the museum where they were running what looked like a cross between northern Tohoku, and lower honshu, but were running trains from both JR Kyushu and JR Hokkiado. 

[disturbman]

I recently purchased a Eizan Electric Railroad 900 Series Kirara (orange) Tram and feel somewhat compelled to model a short portion of its route go figure.

 

I've been thinking about doing something similar with a Japanese tram--maybe I could go all prototypical with T-trak module and just free-form everything else...

 

That's a possibility. I think in fact you can escape that problem by having a freeform layout for your kid and you and one, more accurate, in modules just for you or the sake of it. In my mind building T-track could help you going prototypical by just focusing on small parts of an existing line. You will then sequenced the work, make it at your own pace.

[scott]

It's sorta like creating their own miniature kingdom.

 

That sounds about like my speed.....pass my crown and scepter, please.... 

 

There's that wonderful display they have in Omiya at the museum where they were running what looked like a cross between northern Tohoku, and lower honshu, but were running trains from both JR Kyushu and JR Hokkiado. 

 

Are there any pictures of this online anywhere?

 

I think in fact you can escape that problem by having a freeform layout for your kid and you and one, more accurate, in modules just for you or the sake of it.

 

That makes sense--and, practically speaking, I'm not going to be able to make the big layout prototypical anyway. So maybe this is the way to go. Plus I like Shashinka's "design your own kingdom" idea. So--where do I get several thousand n-scale bicycles?

[cteno4]

I think for the most parts japanese modelers tend to do the perceived type of modeling in both layout and scenery. they tend to like to have all the basic features, but not a particular place. also they tend to do more perceived scenery rather than the hyper realistic scenery. thats not to say there are some really prototypical and hyper realistic scenery modelers in japan. since the hobby is so huge there im sure each sub group out numbers all the us modelers combined! as others have stated lots of japanese dont have a layout room so end up doing the temporary layouts on the floor with sectional track so i would guess more prototypical layouts might be hard to do this way.

 

ive never been a hyper prototypical modeler so i think thats why japanese modeling attracted me so much. also since there is so much variety of scenery and track in japan, almost anything you come up with probably has a prototype somewhere in japan! i have also been a slut collector, collecting the trains i really like rather than just focusing on a region. one of our club members only buys trains he has ridden on!

 

scott makes a great point that ttrak is a great and simple way to try some very prototypical scenes. also a great place to try doing very detailed scenery as its just doing a small bit at a time and a great way to learn more detailed techniques. if you screw up its only on a small area and easy to recover!

 

cheers,

 

jeff

[Mudkip Orange]

i wish i could do prototype specific modeling but to be honest there is just too many cool trains and possiblities so i run a hybrid layout.   also lots of good layouts i see on youtube seem to be able to cater to several prototypes.  for example, on jummamitts layout he will run only Keikyu one day, then run another set of trains the next.    while he runs only prototype specifics each time, he can easily swap out and run other lines on the same layout.

 

thats why i try to do with my layout.   but most of the time its a mix and mash of different lines that probably will never run next to eachother in real life!

 

But jummamit's train budget is larger than everyone else on this forum combined

[Tenorikuma]

Related to this topic, I was just reading an interview with Modemo's model designers in Train Modelling Magazine (a Japanese publication), and they mentioned that they focus on specific railways like Enoden because a lot of Japanese modellers buy trains for only the specific railways they model, and catering to that crowd has been a big part of their success.

 

I would hazard a guess that Green Max specializes in Kintetsu, Odakyu, and Meitetsu trains for the same reason.

 

So maybe that answers part of the OP's question: serious Japanese model railroaders tend to focus on specific railways and lines.

[Martijn Meerts]

I seem to remember Doug mentioning somewhere that he got an email from Kato. Someone there had seen his layout, and was fascinated by the fact that it wasn't based on any real prototype because that's what's commonly done in Japan.

[scott]

It'd be nice to see some of those layouts. Of course, if I could see them up close, then I'd be in Japan, which would be even better.

 

After wrestling with this deep and important philosophical issue, I have determined that I am shameful and unworthy, and will continue to model railroads in a cheap, shoddy, and non-prototypical fashion.

 

I guess the reason that this nags at me a bit is that I hate to seem geographically clueless about somebody's else's country. But, after all, it's just a model railroad, not a geographic-literacy examination. The good thing is that I've gotten motivated to learn about the geography of Japan in more detail anyway.

[Martijn Meerts]

I think being 100% prototypical is far too limiting. Especially in Japan there are so many great looking trains, and if you want to be truly prototypical you'll miss out on a lot of them.

 

I like basing things on the prototype, or making certain scenery elements look prototypical etc, but as for operation, I like mixing all the rolling stock.

[scott]

Well, it'd be a lot easier and more fun to do it that way on the large layout. As I mentioned before, I would be OK with a prototypical T-trak module.

 

OK, I just need to get over this. 

[EWS60008]

My Layout will be a Freeform type because as well as I have mainly Japanese trains and stock, I also own a Graham Farish/Bachmann EWS-liveried Class 60 numbered 60052 (British) and I am due to receive a StartTrain Models RENFE (Spanish) Class 319.4 in AVE Operadora livery in the post very soon. I am also planning to buy a Kato RENFE AVE100 (Spanish TGV) in the Operadora AVE livery which has not been long released. So my local and high speed trains will be strictly mixed and matched even though the area I will be modelling will be based in the Kansai Prefecture . I am currently using the Kato Viaduct elevated track oval for the time being so I only have a temporary layout until I get round to building a semi-permanent one. Overall, its really down to preference for the modeller.

[Guest redracer]

I seem to remember Doug mentioning somewhere that he got an email from Kato. Someone there had seen his layout, and was fascinated by the fact that it wasn't based on any real prototype because that's what's commonly done in Japan.

 

I think you had better read that email again, because it was actually quite the opposite of what you suggest