Japanese rolling stock and scenery: which choice?

[titoit]

Hi everybody.

I started to collect Japanese models not long ago. It’s an amazing world, but it’s very hard to follow models and new issues. The main problem is the language, because English publications and catalogues are extremely rare and this forum is really a singular opportunity. Besides, I’ve never been to Japan and it’s a hard to understand the huge railway situation of that country.

So if I want to buy some models, I’d like to know which situation is better to represent , e.g. railway company, railway line, but also overcrowded city areas, rural background or even industrial layouts.

Choosing a subject of my own country (Italy), for example, it’s easier, because there aren’t so many products available: you can show rural areas with old models or small urban areas with rolling stock circulating at present.

But Japan is quite different.

From your own experience, what’s better? Which are the best choose for companies and scenery? For example there’re many  EMU/DMU of JR East available on purchasing website .

What are you thinking about?  I wish to ask you some advices to restrict my choice.

Thank you :)

[IST]

I cannot give you any advice, because I chosed Rule #1 in case of Japanese modelling: Kumamoto tram runs next to my Hiroshima or Toyama trams. :) I bought 2 sets of Yamanote E231-500 because I travelled by it and some Shinkansens because I like their form and speed.

Kato / Tomix / MicroAce / Modemo / etc? It depends on your taste and your wallet.

Although there is not so many information about Japanese railways in English, if you start to read this forum and ask, you will get a lot of information (I mean LOT) from other forum members.

[Melandir]

My opinion is that the only thing that is better, it's the thing you like,

until you really know what you want to model

[NJHA]

My opinion is that the only thing that is better, it's the thing you like,

until you really know what you want to model

same here. best option to start with and with no knowledge or specific interest is to just go with what you like. Then with time you choose an area/era and start modelling it.

[gerryo]

I have much the same opinion as NJHA, except that being a much older person I fear I don't have time to concentrate on any one thing. So far I have been switching about from Trams to Shinkansens and then to local commuters, with not much care as to whether they match or not.

 

I buy what I see, and like, at the time I have the money to buy something.

 

gerryo

[dabsan]

Because there are no rules in the world of model railways (unlike the real world) it's fun to buy and run anything you like. That's the joy of model railways!

[westfalen]

I try to limit myself to JNR late steam era but I end up buying anything that I like the look of, or trains that I have ridden.  Like Australians most Italian modellers and railfans wouldn't know a C11 from an E7.

[cteno4]

Titoit,

 

Like others have said its hard to tell you what to do in this case, it's really what interests you the most. If you are the type that likes to have things really pro typical then perhaps someone here can suggest a region and a few of the essential trains to represent what you want.

 

It's also would be good to know where you are going with all of this, are you planning a large, medium or small layout. Do you absolutely love shinkansens and have to have them in a future layout situation? Do you love or hate interurban, trams, etc? These things will help narrow things some possibly.

 

Do you have any Japanese trains yet? If not you might look around at the big online retailers that have English sites and just get a train that you really think is cool and a loop of track to just start playing with one. That at times can break the decision paralysis.

 

The good news is that all the companies that make Japanese trains are great. Kato, tomix, micro ace and greenmax are all in the same rough level of quality and detail, so you can't go too wrong. You will find many have personal preferences between companies and there are a few feature differences (like newer kato equipment can be very dcc friendly, but not the others, tomix has power couplers that give you full train all wheel pickup on newer shinkansens, tomix has some ultra detailed models, micro ace and green max do some very obscure and fun like painted trains).

 

For track the tomix finetrack and kato unitrak are both great. Again some personal and feature differences like kato is very rugged and sold retail around the world but tomix is a bit more prototypical in look and has a larger selection of tracks,mbut you have to buy it from Japan mail order. Again both work wonderfully and neither would kill a layout.

 

Lots of scenery available to do all sorts of Japanese scenes,many all are really good. Again just a few feature differences with tomytec being pre painted and weathered with simple pop together assembly, kato being pre assembled and finished but can stand a bit of weathering to knock off the plastic look, greenmax are classic plastic glue together kits and then paint yourself, sankei are laser cut colored chipboard kits you glue together and don't require paint, but you can detail them some more easily. Again all are great and can be mixed and matched with just a bit of weathering, painting or detailing to make a scene look seemless.

 

Japan is a great place to model as there are few planning laws and many building are not made to last more than a few decades, but there can be very old ones still existing, so you can have quite a mish-mash of kinds and eras of buildings right next to each other, also you can have a town or city transition into rural rice paddy out the backdoor of a 12 story apartment building! So you can cram all sorts of scenery into a small space and still be somewhat prototypical!

 

Rail in Japan also is all over the place and is right up against just about anything you can imagine, so just about any rail situation you end up with the joke is there is probably a prototype for it in Japan! Again this lets you pack a lot of track into a layout with a lot of different scenes and it will feel like japan. You can have multiple railways in the same place along with places where trams, freight, interurbans, historic steam, expresses, joyful trains (custom excursion trains), and shinkansens can all come together. Other areas where just about any combo you dream up I bet there is a close prototype for it somewhere in Japan! Only issue focusing that may be the regions as you won't get some trains in the same region a lot of the time so then it will come down to if you want to mode a region and only do trains that would possibly come together (but even then there is a lot of variety depend on the region and sub region you choose) or do you want to be fanciful and buy and run the trains you like and not worry about that (which many of us do). It's up to you!

 

I know all this I just dumped on you may make it seem more daunting to choose, but I've found it in practice to be more freeing to be creative than restrictive.

 

On the forum here in the Japanese rr prototype forum you will find a lot of train ride posts that you can see how quickly the scenes can change along with all the different stuff you can see very close to the tracks. Also using Google streetview is helpful to see the placement, kinds, distances, details, etc for buildings and roads. Take some time and ride around japan virtually like this and it will also help you feel out what you love and fit in your modeling plans.

 

Keep asking questions, but maybe try to focus them in a bit to get clearer answers and anything you can provide about where you want to go with your modeling and your overall preferences (ie does it have to be perfect or just perceived scene or total fantasy -- this is up to you, but good to know in drafting answers to questions). The more you focus in the more focused opinions (and you can get a lot here at times) and answers you will get back!

 

Have fun with this whatever you do and will look forward to your adventure as it unfolds!

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

Edited February 10, 2015 by cteno4

[Keikyu]

For trains I have a preference for Kato. Cheap relatively, good quality, the motors run nice. I use Kato for anything interchangable and quite a few sets I won't mix up I use Tomix trains as sets, like a Kintetsu 21000 is going to be 6 or 8 cars so the Tomix set is cheap and won't need to be connected to any other brands so the train is run as is. I like Microace, their trains look pretty good and run nice, but they are really expensive. I avoid Greenmax when possible.

 

For scenery I prefer the Tomytec buildings. Kato makes nice buildings but they feel so sterile and brand new. The painted Tomytec buildings have a kind of dated and imperfect look to them and I enjoy that.

[railsquid]

I avoid Greenmax when possible.

 

Out of curiosity, why?

[Keikyu]

Out of curiosity, why?

I don't like their motors. I have a handful of their older trains and they are ridiculously loud and sound like they will blow up any second. I don't know if they have improved on that since it soured my view of it but I haven't bought any trains for a while to check it out anyway.

[railsquid]

I don't like their motors. I have a handful of their older trains and they are ridiculously loud and sound like they will blow up any second. I don't know if they have improved on that since it soured my view of it but I haven't bought any trains for a while to check it out anyway.

 

Interesting. It's on my to-do list to try a Greenmax train, but so far I haven't found one I particularly want (or is discounted enough to make it worth a fling).

[E6系]

As I'm doing my annual audit of stock, testing trains, looking closely at the details, and working out what to upgrade or repair next, I must agree with Keikyu. My opinion is that GreenMax is the worst of the big four because they are expensive, yet poorly detailed and noisy motors.  For many models there is no replacement for the Arnold coupler fitted.  Often, it looks like Tomix couplers might fit but don't. 

 

I'm also not overly impressed with MicroAce.  In many of my models, the shells fit poorly.  Also expensive and fitted with Arnold couplers.  At least most can be replaced.  Probably 1/5 of my MA models arrived with some QA problem - loose shells, windows, of headlight problems, which are often caused by MA persisting with the tiny wire pickups on their lightboards that don't quite touch the copper strips properly.  One serious problem with MA is that the foam in the cases is too tight on the cars, making them difficult to pack or unpack.  MA seem to do a better job with the Odakyu models that use Jacobs type bogies with powered couplers.

 

In contrast, I find Kato has the best consistency in quality.  Many models are DCC friendly.  The details are very sharp.  Most don't require transfers to be applied. Most models are fitted with Shibata couplers, which I prefer, if the prototype is fitted.  Tomix is close behind, but you must pay a premium for the High Grade versions to get Shibata couplers fitted.  Of course, you can fit after market and Tomix makes an excellent range.  Tomix also makes Janney couplers (which also fit MA models that should have them).  Tomix leads the way with power couplers on shinkansen. but I find the small transfers difficult to apply to models.

[JR 500系]

As I'm doing my annual audit of stock, testing trains, looking closely at the details, and working out what to upgrade or repair next, I must agree with Keikyu. My opinion is that GreenMax is the worst of the big four because they are expensive, yet poorly detailed and noisy motors.  For many models there is no replacement for the Arnold coupler fitted.  Often, it looks like Tomix couplers might fit but don't. 

 

I'm also not overly impressed with MicroAce.  In many of my models, the shells fit poorly.  Also expensive and fitted with Arnold couplers.  At least most can be replaced.  Probably 1/5 of my MA models arrived with some QA problem - loose shells, windows, of headlight problems, which are often caused by MA persisting with the tiny wire pickups on their lightboards that don't quite touch the copper strips properly.  One serious problem with MA is that the foam in the cases is too tight on the cars, making them difficult to pack or unpack.  MA seem to do a better job with the Odakyu models that use Jacobs type bogies with powered couplers.

 

In contrast, I find Kato has the best consistency in quality.  Many models are DCC friendly.  The details are very sharp.  Most don't require transfers to be applied. Most models are fitted with Shibata couplers, which I prefer, if the prototype is fitted.  Tomix is close behind, but you must pay a premium for the High Grade versions to get Shibata couplers fitted.  Of course, you can fit after market and Tomix makes an excellent range.  Tomix also makes Janney couplers (which also fit MA models that should have them).  Tomix leads the way with power couplers on shinkansen. but I find the small transfers difficult to apply to models.

 

Very nicely sum up E6 san! Most points are already covered by what you've mentioned, but I tend to still have a biased opinion to Tomix, because of their power couplers and cheaper interior lighting options (Torm, illumi etc).  :)

 

I do like Kato's tilting mechanism and their 'already' printed on destination signs, which is extremely difficult to apply for Tomix....  

 

MA has very good range of other train sets that are not done by other manufacturers, but their default rapido couplers and tight urethane cases that E6 san has mentioned is their minus point, plus also being more expensive.  

 

Green max I felt is the worst of the big four too, with heavily priced sets, and some even without electric-ready circuit boards in their carriages; and require additional parts to interior light them. Big Boo on that despite paying a high price... They do have some really exclusive sets though...

 

Then that's Modemo, but that's more for Trams and Endoden... The only two regular train sets I think are the Asagiri and the 313 series....

 

But I think we shouldn't move into the brands comparison again right?  :)

 

Moving onto scenery items,

 

Tomytec has by far the largest range, and also the most affordable. They need to be assembled though, but they're easy and also allow for customization like adding lights and such...

 

Tomix has some buildings that are ok, but range is limited.

 

Kato does very nice buildings with high level of detail, but they can look really new and kinda not realistic, unless weathering is done...

 

Greenmax has some buildings, too, but are often mostly requiring assembly, painting and glue, intended more for the avid model kit builders, but recent released models come ready painted and requiring no glue...  

[Keikyu]

Interesting. It's on my to-do list to try a Greenmax train, but so far I haven't found one I particularly want (or is discounted enough to make it worth a fling).

 

Now that I think on it, it's certainly not every train. I do have a 2 car Greenmax 107-100 and that runs pretty well from what I remember. But the 3 I have are an Okdayu 2000, Hankyu 2800 and Keikyu 1000. Their motors are really loud and I don't feel they run as well as the other major companies.

 

By all means give them a try if you find something you want though.

[JR 500系]

Interesting. It's on my to-do list to try a Greenmax train, but so far I haven't found one I particularly want (or is discounted enough to make it worth a fling).

 

How about the recent Tokyu 5050 series Shibuya Hikarie ? You can get the 4-car basic set first to try out. It's a stunning looking train, love the designs! My first Green Max train set ~

[Ochanomizu]

Hello Mr JR500

 

I have the most recent GreenMax Tokyu 5050 - code 4706/7.  It must be the worst of my GM models.  It is loud and poorly detailed.  The Rapido couplers cannot be replaced.  I tested Tomix 0336, which fit on the body, but are set too far in from the end of the car, greatly restricting the operational radii of the consist.  It is extremely tight in the urethane case.  The cars have a void for inter-car doors.  The colour scheme drew me to the model, but the quality of the paintwork on the model is not special.  The pantos are plastic. 

 

The biggest disappointment is just how high the motor is raised above the window sills.  Other manufacturers do not seem to have this problem.  In recent models, Kato and Tomix have moved away from silver wheels to using black wheels, which look more realistic.  GreenMax is persisting with the silver wheels.

[railsquid]

The biggest disappointment is just how high the motor is raised above the window sills.  Other manufacturers do not seem to have this problem.

 

The Greenmax Kintetsu 15200 I just bought suffers from the same problem. In the non-powered car there's an attempt at modelling seating but the bogie mounts are clearly visible. They'd have been better off using a slightly frosted plastic for the windows.

[titoit]

Thank you everybody for your advices.

I appreciated very much your proposals and now I feel myself better trying to choose something in the wonderful world of Japanese railways.

Even if I haven’t any personal experience in Japan, I agree with cteno4. It’s quite easy to build a Japanese layout because in Japan you can find in the same place a lot of railways or even tramways lines, bridges, stations and so on. Besides, despite of European situation, I think you can represent in the same layout a traditional castle or even a shrine not very far from a skyscraper or classic urban houses.

We could say that Japan is a 1:1 scale real layout…. :)

However, I'll try to follow yourselves to make better choices, particularly for the huge rolling stock items. 

[cteno4]

Titoit,

 

Yep you got it, you can find small shrines in a tiny alley between too large buildings or a temple in a residential neighborhood like another house! Almost anything goes, like the joke "there's a prototype for that in japan!". Also much less building restrictions so you can get very odd sequences of structures and rail all over! You put it well that japan is a 1:1 scale model rr!

 

You can see everyone has their likes and dislikes in the brands, but overall all are good quality and its hard to go really wrong so focus on what you like. Tomytec trains can be a more inexpensive place to start small if funds are limited and you want to test the water. Others cost more but will bring greater detail and quality.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[Railtunes]

My approach to the choice of what to model is based not as much on a particular railway or type of train, but on the type of operation that most interests me. That could mean Shinkansen for one modeler, heavy commuter traffic for another, freight for someone else, or, in my case, small branch line-style modeling. It's a matter of looking closely at how you want to run your models.

If you want to just watch them go by - railfan style - then something more of a dense mainline style might be your choice. You can still have some operation with station stops and alternating arrivals and departures, but mainly, it will be setting up a sequence of trains.

If you want a particular ambience - say, urban as opposed to rural - then that could influence the type of trains you buy and run and the setting you build for them - and vice-versa.

If, like myself, you fancy switching, and smaller, shorter trains serving small country stations, then you can choose 1- to 4-unit DMU, EMU trains, or mixed trains pulled by small steam, diesel or electric locos. 

There's also the choice of era - steam, diesel, electric or some mix, for example.

Part of your choice might also depend on the space and time you have for your layout, as those sorting out those factors will effect some basic elements like train length and curve radius. 

So, I'd suggest you carefully consider what it is about the hobby that really intrigues you and sue that as a starting place in shaping your layout concept.

 

- Paul Ingraham, Coordinator, AsiaNRail

 

- Paul Ingraham, Coordinator, AsiaNRail