Kato 10-550 vs Kato 10-229?

[Guest keio6000]

What's the difference between these two KiHa82 sets?  I thought 229 was the old DCC-less version (and also possibly without the flywheel and without the changeable front signboard and such) but now i see it is listed as having theses also.

 

The 2013 kato catalogue clearly lists 10-550 with the [DCC] sign.  not clear is if this pertains to the end lighting, the motor, or what.  kato continues to be notoriously sloppy about stating DCC compatibility correctly.  This kiha82 page http://www.katomodels.com/n/kiha82/ at kato doesnt mention the word "DCC" at all.

 

 

 

 

[katoftw]

This is from the older -229 version released in 2005.

So guessing the newer -550 version released in 2007 would be DCC okay also.

 

[katoftw]

After a second look also, I think the biggest difference is the older one has stickers/decals for the front nose sign, where the newer one has the removable/transferable plastic inserts.

 

For the assembly parts sheet for the -550 on the Kato page you linked us to, 6061G is the directional light unit, and it has a plastic dummy piece that mimicks the shape of the FL12 decoder.  Pull out plastic dummy piece, put in decoder.  Or in some models it slides to make the lighting board loose contact with brass power strips.  So if it has that plastic piece, then a FL12 would be able to go in their.

 

10550E3 looks to be the front nose plastic inserts.

[Guest keio6000]

hi katoftw -

 

thanks for this!

 

indeed it is odd as the releases are so similar.  wish kato's own documentation were better that we wouldn't have to guess at DCC compatibility via the shapes of add-on pieces!

[katoftw]

I find documentation for most model trains, and especially anything Japanese and more than 5 years old pretty bad.

 

I did notice hobby search still has the head marks available: - http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10043860

[Guest keio6000]

I purchased KiHa 82 10-550 from nariichi-san (modeltrainsplus.net).  I'm sure it will arrive soon, in wonderful shape.  Of course, I had it sent to my father overseas, so I won't actually see the train for a year probably, but at least it is on its way.   Every serious Japanese N scale collection should have a KiHa 82 and mine has been feeling empty since I sold off my Kato 10-1xx model on ebay some months ago.

 

Thank you to katoftw and to Nariichi-san!

[katoftw]

Di you have the very much older 10-131 set?  That must have been 10+ years old.  I found it when I found the headmarks on hobby search.

 

What countries do you and your father live in?

Edited January 7, 2015 by katoftw

[Guest keio6000]

hi katoftw,

 

i spend my time between the UK, USA, and Eastern Europe.   I also visit japan for about a month or two every two years (used to be every year).   my wife and i will probably go this summer.   i dont want to ship the trains to the UK due to import tax and duty and to eastern ukraine it is riskier due to the political situation.  this is why i had the trains sent to my father in the UK.  i will probably go to japan this spring or summer for an extended trip.  if anybody knows of anybody renting a small house or apartment in tokyo (preferably western tokyo "close in") please let me know - i used to rent a house near yoyogi hachiman station - that was ideal - but the foreign owner (who used to leave in the summer) has since moved away permanently.  Yes, i am aware of various internet based services, of course.

 

yes, 10-131 was probably it.  i sold it (on ebay) for nearly the same price as I got the new 10-550 for.

 

rather than looking on hobbysearch, you might want to start using yahoo auctions japan as a reference.  not only do you see a lot of old stuff there, but you also get a sense of what it's valued at now.  i dont have time to look at the moment, but for example you can see that the old kiha82 set sells for in japan for about half what the new ones sell for.  you can also get a sense of the market valuation of "out of stock" items.  sometimes it goes up and sometimes down. for example, the Modemo Odakyu 20000 set for some time was quite expensive and now it's selling for peanuts again.

 

interesting questions are like "what will happen to the very high price of microace odakyu 3100 once the kato set is released".    i'm also a kato diehard and will gladly sell any of my microace duplicates for kato equivalents.

 

by the way nariichi san kindly sold me quite a number of kato dcc decoders as well. as i get increasingly into that, it's nice to have them. 

Edited January 8, 2015 by keio6000

[katoftw]

i frequent yahoo jp also.  good place to pick up "out of stock" micro ace items.  for some reason, i'm starting to obsess about old kiha dmus that have been converted into newer tourist trains.  larger windows, interesting paint scheme etc.  micro ace offers planety.  and yahoo it the only place to get them.

Edited January 8, 2015 by katoftw

[Guest keio6000]

i frequent yahoo jp also.  good place to pick up "out of stock" micro ace items.  for some reason, i'm starting to obsess about old kiha dmus that have been converted into newer tourist trains.  larger windows, interesting paint scheme etc.  micro ace offers planety.  and yahoo it the only place to get them.

 

 

to each his own - not exactly my thing (sorry,the above is so ugly it hurts) but that's the great thing about this hobby, isn't it?   the "focus" of my collection tends to be tokyo area commuters, though as i have a lot of stuff it's a bit of a mix. i also have a bit of exotic greenmax built stuff that i got on yahoo.jp.  maybe you saw i listed much of my collection in some thread a few months ago -- i also tend to get all of the standard JR limited expresses, though the increasingly modern stuff doe not interest me as much   or, to be more specific, trains that look like they could be from any country do not interest me:

 

 

 

my biggest yahoo regret is a few years ago somebody had built (from a brass kit, i believe) all the keio trains that operate lineside based out of takahatafudou. something like this:

 

 

but with the full range of crane cars.  this probably doesnt look like much to you, but to a keio completist it's perfect.  but, as the price went over 20,000 i chickened out. highly regret it now!

[katoftw]

the gold and maroon dmu is ugly.

 

i prefer the old shape kept.

 

[Guest keio6000]

uhh, right - glad you like it and i'm sure my commuter EMUs look really boring to you!

[katoftw]

uhh, right - glad you like it and i'm sure my commuter EMUs look really boring to you!

Depends on what you class as a commuter emu.  E259 N'EX? E231 Shonan with Salo double deck cars and green/mustard stripes?  The iconic E231-500 Yamanote train?  I love them.  Although there is plenty in the third sector I haven't delved into yet.

 

My favourite train for a long time is the 885 series.  EMU and limited express.  Should be up your alley that one.

[Guest keio6000]

Depends on what you class as a commuter emu.  E259 N'EX? E231 Shonan with Salo double deck cars and green/mustard stripes?  The iconic E231-500 Yamanote train?  I love them.  Although there is plenty in the third sector I haven't delved into yet.

 

My favourite train for a long time is the 885 series.  EMU and limited express.  Should be up your alley that one.

 

885 is great, but i mean commuter EMUs like this:

 

 

 

(this one happens to be a subway - microace toei shinjuku 10-300).

[katoftw]

I rode that mean machine to Iwamotocho to visit Akihabara last October.  Also the Odeo Line up to Ochiaiminiaminagasaki to go to the Kato store. Also to akabanebashi to visit Tokyo Tower.  Then to Shiodome to transfer to the Yurikamome.  Also went up to Asakusa on the Asakusa Line.  Pretty sure most were 9000s. Or maybe 12-000s?  500 yen is great valve for an all day ticket.

 

p.s. Thanks for the tip on renting apartment/house.  You just saved be buckets of cash for my next Japan trip.

Edited January 9, 2015 by katoftw

[marknewton]

IEvery serious Japanese N scale collection should have a KiHa 82...

And every HO scale fleet as well. I have a 6-car train of Kato models which is among my favourites. If I can figure out how to transfer the file from this iPad I'll post a movie of it running on the club layout.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/94424961@N00/16059830807/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/94424961@N00/16058193110/

 

Your advice about Yahoo Japan auctions is good, too. I've found a lot of very nice HO scale models there.

Cheers,

 

Mark.

Edited January 11, 2015 by marknewton

[Guest keio6000]

Hi that's some beautiful looking HO scale stuff.  It really does look much more convincing than N in a lot of ways.  Alas, the cost is high, it takes up a lot of space, and, critically, the selection is not that great.

[cteno4]

And the sound is wonderful! Nice clicky clack!

 

Jeff

[marknewton]

Japanese HO is certainly more expensive than Japanese N, but compared to other HO scale models I think the prices are quite reasonable. The quality of Japanese HO is equal to or often better than comparable models from elsewhere in the world.

 

I agree, HO does need a lot of space compared to N. I'm amazed at how long my son's HO Shinkansen is. But again, it's relative. If I was modelling the trains that we run at work I'd need to find space for something that's 1600 metres long, with up to 5 locos on the front. A 6 car KiHa 82 is a bit more manageable.

 

As for selection, there's obviously a lot more available in N, and at times I'm envious of the choice you have. But having said that there's a lot of models that are outside my area of interest, and the number of late JNR-era models available in HO seems to be increasing, so it all balances out.

 

I think if I was starting out now as a railway modeller I would most likely go for N scale. But as someone who has worked in HO his entire life I'm not going to change now - I'm too set in my ways I reckon! :)

 

Jeff, the funny thing is that the clickety-clack is much more audible on the video than it is in person. There's a long frog where the gauntlet track starts, which is where all the noise is coming from I suppose.

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

Edited January 13, 2015 by marknewton