Commute Into Tokyo Red or Blue

[Jcarlton]

I was watching this video of Yokohama Station in the morning rush and I had a thought. Which would be the better commute choice into Tokyo, the Blue cars of JREast's Keihin Tohoku Line or the Big Red cars of the standard gauge Keikyu?

Both these lines parallel each other up through Tokyo Station and share the same stops or near by for most of the route. If you are tying into the West Side of Tokyo, choice is Keihin Tohoku because of the ability to change to the Shonan Shinjuku or Yamanote lines and for the Northeast parts of Tokyo and parts of Tokyo where the subway goes Keikyu is the choice because of it's ties to the Tokyo metro. But for the destinations where they both go? How do you choose.

[katoftw]

I'd pick the JR train.  As an international traveller, the JRPass would cover it.

[bikkuri bahn]

The actual competition, at least for longer journeys, is between Keikyu and the JR Tokaido Line.The reason why Keikyu`s kaisoku tokkyu services are cleared for 120kmh running is to beat the Tokaido line trains that max out at 110kmh. You can find articles on this speed race in railfan magazines even as far back as the sixties. Nobody rides the Keihin Tohoku line all the way from Yokohama to Tokyo. Kamata, maybe, but nothing north of and including Shinagawa.

Edited December 31, 2014 by bikkuri bahn

[railsquid]

It also depends on where you're going - point-to-point Yokohama-Shinagawa on the Keikyu is faaaaast, but slows way down on the Asakusa line. If heading into the Tokyo station area, the Tokaido line might be more convenient as well as a better view.

[Jcarlton]

I was trying to get the viewpoint from a commuting standpoint, not someday that's just visiting.  Obviously, if you had a JR pass you pick JR.  But for a daily commute?

[miyakoji]

Interesting theme for a thread, I'm sure we can come up with more of these :). Particularly from a commuter point of view, I'd most consider how close the stations are to my start and end points, and the necessary transfers. Other factors would probably included crowding, station amenities (shopping, benches on the platforms, etc), scenery, rolling stock ...

[railsquid]

Another factor is the number of intra-company transfers, and the willingness of one's employer to pay for the desired, rather than the cheapest, route.

 

The last place I worked at was kind enough to let me choose my own route, so I arranged for a semi-plausible one involving three different companies but actually used a route involving two, which produced some nice extra pocket money.

[kvp]

 

The last place I worked at was kind enough to let me choose my own route, so I arranged for a semi-plausible one involving three different companies but actually used a route involving two, which produced some nice extra pocket money.

This is the result of the added complexity of having various transport companies with their own separate fare systems. In Budapest there is a yearly pass that is good for all forms of transit, regardless of being local, regional or long distance. This includes all trains with non reserved seating within the boundaries of the city, which is a nice thing, because i can just hitch a free ride on most trains (including international ones) from any downtown terminal and only have to get off at the border stations and take another train back. The only limtation is that Danube river ships are included only on workdays (with free bicycle carry) and the children's railway (a narrow gauge tourist line in the mountains) is not included. I think most people would really like to a see a combined monthly or yearly fare system for Tokyo, instead of using pay per travel or fixed route monthly passes. (if there is one, i don't know about it) The same problem is there for London too, where the general pass is only for tourists and even those are area limited. On the other hand, many German and French cities have a common fare system across various companies, so you can get a pass and just go wherever you want.

[Sacto1985]

I think it depends on what part of Tokyo you're going to from Yokohama. If you're talking around Shinagawa Station, the Keikyu trains are much faster; but beyond that, the JR East Tokaidō Main Line trains are way more convenient, especially if you have to travel to the areas around Shinbashi and Tokyo Stations.

[railsquid]

This is the result of the added complexity of having various transport companies with their own separate fare systems. In Budapest there is a yearly pass that is good for all forms of transit, regardless of being local, regional or long distance. This includes all trains with non reserved seating within the boundaries of the city, which is a nice thing, because i can just hitch a free ride on most trains (including international ones) from any downtown terminal and only have to get off at the border stations and take another train back. The only limtation is that Danube river ships are included only on workdays (with free bicycle carry) and the children's railway (a narrow gauge tourist line in the mountains) is not included. I think most people would really like to a see a combined monthly or yearly fare system for Tokyo, instead of using pay per travel or fixed route monthly passes. (if there is one, i don't know about it)

 

There's no general all-companies pass, though most companies have some sort of network pass/ticket, and IIRC there's a combined one for the Toei and Tokyo metro networks. I can't see how a combined system would work short of nationalising all the different companies (though I do wish they'd finally merge Toei and Tokyo metro).

 

The same problem is there for London too, where the general pass is only for tourists and even those are area limited.

 

 

Umm, you mean the TfL travelcard? Available to anyone over pretty much the whole network. There's also a daily capping system in place for the Oyster card.

[miyakoji]

The last place I worked at was kind enough to let me choose my own route, so I arranged for a semi-plausible one involving three different companies but actually used a route involving two, which produced some nice extra pocket money.

 

natsukashii naaaa...  I remember coworkers trying to do this.  I always bought the teikiken that that company paid for, and rode every last yen out of it!

[kvp]

 

I can't see how a combined system would work short of nationalising all the different companies (though I do wish they'd finally merge Toei and Tokyo metro).

Pretty much the same way a JR pass works everywhere for tourists. The fare income have to be divided between each company based on passenger numbers. The only downside is that everyone must use a common price table, so i do understand this is not really possible in a truely private system. London seem to use something similar tough...

 

 

Umm, you mean the TfL travelcard? Available to anyone over pretty much the whole network. There's also a daily capping system in place for the Oyster card.

Daily cards cost more than the daily caps, so instead of being a good alternative it's worse. On the other hand, using the daily cap for a month, you can go as high as 19.60 gbp each day, meaing up to 600 gbp per month (zones 1-9). Considering the average salary in the UK is around 2200 gbp, that's 27%. The monthly travelcard price is 225 gbp for 2015 (zones 1-6, i didn't find 1-9), which is around 10%. I'm sure there is a cheaper general alternative, but don't really know what is it and how it should be used. Maybe someone can shed some light on this.

 

About the original topic: Are there any time tables for various services between Yokohama, Shinagawa and Shimbashi stations on both lines? (i mean a list of stations and the run time between them during rush hours) I think the last 'common' station is Shimbashi, since the Asakusa line diverges after that point from the Keihin Tohoku. I'm asking about various services because based on the number of stations on both lines, the Keikyu expresses seem to competing with the JR East locals. I don't know what is the price difference (if any) between two competing similar average speed services and which service should be compared to which on a Yokohama - Shinagawa or a Yokohama - Shimbashi route.

[E6系]

If you had any class you'd be on that beautiful red Keikyu ... wouldn't you? ;)

[railsquid]

Pretty much the same way a JR pass works everywhere for tourists. The fare income have to be divided between each company based on passenger numbers. The only downside is that everyone must use a common price table, so i do understand this is not really possible in a truely private system. London seem to use something similar tough...

 

Ah, but London is not a truly private system... The JR railpass system works pretty much because it's for a very limited market. Trying to shoehorn some unified pricing system onto Tokyo's network (or more likely the entire metropolitan region) would be an expensive adminstrative nightmare with little actual benefit.

 

What would be nice is multi-route commuter passes - while you can of course buy one pass to cover a stretch over multiple companies, a pass covering multiple stretches is not currently possible, meaning you have to carry two or more depending on your route(s).

[railsquid]

Daily cards cost more than the daily caps, so instead of being a good alternative it's worse. On the other hand, using the daily cap for a month, you can go as high as 19.60 gbp each day, meaing up to 600 gbp per month (zones 1-9). Considering the average salary in the UK is around 2200 gbp, that's 27%. The monthly travelcard price is 225 gbp for 2015 (zones 1-6, i didn't find 1-9), which is around 10%. I'm sure there is a cheaper general alternative, but don't really know what is it and how it should be used. Maybe someone can shed some light on this.

 

I'm not at all familiar with the pricing system, except that it's pricy. After my last couple of trips I've decided to avoid London altogether unless I've got a specific reason to go there, or someone else is paying; the prospect of travelling in on unreliable trains, queuing to buy an expensive single ticket to an expensive hotel (and half the machines weren't working and hardly any accept coins) is starting to lose its attraction...

[Mudkip Orange]

The last place I worked at was kind enough to let me choose my own route, so I arranged for a semi-plausible one involving three different companies but actually used a route involving two, which produced some nice extra pocket money.

 

In what universe do companies pay for your commuting costs?

[railsquid]

Japan.

[Guest keio6000]

About the original topic: Are there any time tables for various services between Yokohama, Shinagawa and Shimbashi stations on both lines? (i mean a list of stations and the run time between them during rush hours) I think the last 'common' station is Shimbashi, since the Asakusa line diverges after that point from the Keihin Tohoku. I'm asking about various services because based on the number of stations on both lines, the Keikyu expresses seem to competing with the JR East locals. I don't know what is the price difference (if any) between two competing similar average speed services and which service should be compared to which on a Yokohama - Shinagawa or a Yokohama - Shimbashi route.

 

please see hyperdia.com for pricing and timetables.

 

in my opinion there is little to no sense to ever take keikyu unless you happen to be going to or from a keikyu (or toei asakusa, etc) specific station. 

 

for actual shinagawa to yokohama travel, i'd only take keikyu either a) i happened to be right near the keikyu wicket or b) for railfanning