DCC for Kato 3 light DD51?

[westfalen]

I found a spare Digitrax DN163K1D tonight and took my Kato 7008-8 three headlight DD51 apart to install it and discovered that Kato has changed the circuit board.  It is shorter than previous DD51's and the LEDs are in different locations.  I've looked at a few other similar decoders I have but none are a match for Kato's new board and going by the photos on his web page none of NGDCC's decoders seem to match either.  Kato have frustrated me quite a bit lately by redesigning boards so they look like an easy conversion but they are just different enough that nothing fits.

 

If anyone has put DCC in this loco and knows what deocder will fit?

 

New DD51 with Digitrax decoder below.

[Melandir]

Take a look to digitrax DN163K4a spec

maybe it could be your solution

[westfalen]

Take a look to digitrax DN163K4a spec

maybe it could be your solution

I thought of that but although it looks like it is the same size the LED on the right hand end in my photo is right at the very end of the decoder but on the loco's board it is set back quite a bit from the end.  I'll see if I can get a look at a DN163K4a in person at the club meeting on the weekend but it looks like, as I said in the first post, close but just different enough to be of no use.

[Melandir]

Let me know, I have ordered one but it's just leaving japan so I don't think I'll see it before 3 weeks at least

 

To me it looks compatible but it's better to verify first hand, maybe you just need to cut the lightpipe to solve the issue of the led position

 

 

It's a pity that TCS has not a compatible decoder yet, I usually prefer TCS over Digitrax due to Railcom support

Edited January 1, 2015 by Melandir

[katoftw]

the whole upper sheel of that model was a new mould/cast.  So it wouldn't surprise me if the liglt pipes were different also.  Check to see if the DE10 board fits.

[westfalen]

The DE10 decoder is a possible fit but again the LEDs are in the wrong place as katoftw says the hoods and light pipes of the new DD51 are new tooling.

 

I think I may have cracked it however.  I just noticed the number on the DD51's light board is the catalog number of the EF56, so NGDCC's DE29x2 decoder will do the job.  I will have to remove the two raised parts of the frame circled in yellow to fit the wide part of the decoder.  I had dismissed it at first glance because it looked like it would not fit but it now seems to be the easiest solution.

 

[katoftw]

solution found.  how hard will it be to remove the 2 raise bits?  it is hard or soft metal?

[westfalen]

It's the normal material Kato use for frames, should only take a few minutes with a grinding disc in a motor tool or even just a file.  The longest part of the job should be taking the mechanism apart and putting it back together but I'll wait until I have the decoder before I start attacking the loco.

[Jack]

I just purchased a Kato 7008-C DD51 1043. Digitrax DN163K4A fit with a minor modification. The decoder came with Kapton tape in the right place, but I also had to trim the tape to get it to fit. I also found I needed to put tape on the outside of the motot tabs to insulate them from the shell.

[Dani]

Hello,

 

I converted a DD51 using a PD05 from Doehler & Haas:

 

 

 

Using this method you need to scratch here and there the board, you can find instructions here:

 

http://www.clubncaldes.com/2019/02/kato-7008-7-dd51-500-middle-model-cold.html

 

[Kingmeow]

On 6/27/2022 at 9:19 PM, Jack said:

I just purchased a Kato 7008-C DD51 1043. Digitrax DN163K4A fit with a minor modification. The decoder came with Kapton tape in the right place, but I also had to trim the tape to get it to fit. I also found I needed to put tape on the outside of the motot tabs to insulate them from the shell.

 

@Jack What minor modification did you do to make the DN163K4A fit?  Is the modification to the decoder or the loco?  I recently got a Kato 7008-F DD51 while I was in Japan a few weeks ago.  I assume this is a newer model as I've heard the older models use 3mm LEDs or even bulbs.  I have not opened her up yet.  Just trying to figure out what decoder to order.

 

Yes, the Kato DCC spreadsheet says DN163K4A but there aren't too many posts about a definitive fit.

[Madsing]

I have fitted a DN163K1D into my Kato 7008-A. I can check but don’t remember having any issue. 
 

Marc

[Kingmeow]

Thanks Marc!  I wonder if your 7008-A is any different than my 7008-F as I've read above and elsewhere that at some point Kato changed the lightboard.

[Madsing]

Checked my notes. I just had to cut the light pipes, but that was straightforward and easy (see second photo below).

This is a 7008-A, I cannot comment about the new 7008-F, but maybe you can figure out from the photos below if there has been any change in the design.

Marc

 

 

[Kingmeow]

Marc, THANK YOU!  Those pictures are most helpful!  I can/will easily compare what the insides of the F model looks like compared to your A.  This will give me a good idea whether to go with the K1D or the K4A.

 

I see how the LED on the original light board is moved back.  From the various readings on the internet, I *think* that's the newer design.

[chadbag]

The important thing is the general shape of the light board.  There are a few general models but often the LEDs are way different between them.  I don’t know about Digitrax but TCS will sell several variations of the same physical board with different LED configurations (including some without LEDs so you can add what you need IIRC).
 

But as long as you have the board that is the right physical dimensions and shape you can always move LEDs or adjust or cut light pipes etc.  

 

the K1 and K4 are totally different shaped boards IIRC.  I’ve not done anything decoder wise in a while due to the house project and most of my stuff now packed away or in storage at the new house but I’ll check websites later to confirm my statement.   As long as you have the correct physical board you can make it work with some effort.   None of the Digitrax or TCS boards are really made for the Japanese prototypes.  They’re made for US prototypes that use the same form factor light board.  (There are probably a few exceptions in Digitrax side as they’ve partnered with KATO and may have some versions set up for Japanese).   There is usually a small or more than small amount of work to make them fit — either the body shell doesn’t leave enough room for extra chips or the LEDs are not in ideal positions.   It’s what we’ve had to choose and accept when we decided to stray to Japanese prototypes instead of big standard U.S. locomotives.  It comes with the turf.  

[Kingmeow]

Agree.  I just don't want to buy various decoders, at $30+ a pop, just to see if they physically fit.  I don't mind moving LEDs or cutting light pipes.

Edited November 27 by Kingmeow