Pantograph LED flicker

[Eurostar25]

I was wondering if anyone knew about how some N gauge Shinkansen pantographs flicker as if they are arc-ing.

Is there a particular model where this comes standard or is this a detail that has been added on?

I haven't seen anything from Kato or Tomix in stock and most of my searches come up empty handed.

The effect looks great and I was hoping to have a go at creating the same effect on some of my own machines.

Any thoughts?

 

I'll look for a still shot off YouTube

[HantuBlauLOL]

sparks, you mean?

[Davo Dentetsu]

Well the Doctor Yellow 700s had LEDs in them, but not for the effect you describe.  Although that does sound like a good interesting idea.  Mind you, try recreating a 0 series in full with such an effect.  Need some rainy days to wire all that up... :P

[kvp]

 

I was wondering if anyone knew about how some N gauge Shinkansen pantographs flicker as if they are arc-ing.

If there is a wire above them and they are touching, then it's not an effect, the modells are simply run off the wire. Most european models have the option to run from live catentary. Even some Tomytec trains have the holes added to the roof to allow the installation of working pantographs. I've also seen this installed on Kato trams.

 

For light effects that work without actual overhead wires, you have to solder up a small led to two tiny wires and glue the whole thing onto the pantograph, then route the wires down into the car where the spark generator circuit is housed.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

A friend of my has one of these sets fitted to his Kato Thalys

 

http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=VN5068&style=&strType=&Mcode=Viessmann+5068

[Eurostar25]

Thanks for the ideas.

I'm very certain the effect was just created from an LED located close to the pantograph to give the random arc-ing effect.

I'll do my best to find the video of it! It really did look the part!

[cteno4]

There was a kit a while back with a 402 SMD led and a 1cm square flicker board to install in the car. Gave a nice steady low flicker tine some bright arcs now and then. I'll see if I can find it again. 36g magnet wire can get hidden pretty well.

 

Jeff

[Guest ___]

If there is a wire above them and they are touching, then it's not an effect, the modells are simply run off the wire. Most european models have the option to run from live catentary. Even some Tomytec trains have the holes added to the roof to allow the installation of working pantographs. I've also seen this installed on Kato trams.

 

 It always amazed me that fixed layouts in Japan do not have static or operational cantonary wiring at all. I get it in regards to the home modelers, but for fixed, the wires would be nice, though, I'm not sure how I feel about sparking.

[kvp]

Most japanese pantographs are not working, they don't have springs in them. This is good because they stay up in the air. But they look horrible with wires, since then it's clearly visible that they are not touching. Not to mention N scale wires shouldn't be visible at all from normal viewing distance.

[Eurostar25]

Finally found the video in question

 

 

0:45 seconds in. Is it just a small LED flickering on the pantograph?

[cteno4]

Nice effect.

 

Yep that's the little 402 led kit I bet. The kit was Japanese and probably one of the garage businesses that only sell to a limited number of shops.

 

Just needs a little circuit to randomly fire a cap discharge to make the spark now and then. Use 40g magnet wire to run up the pantograph and mount the led right at the center attachment point, only about 1mm x 0.5mm x 0.5mm.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[Keikyu]

Finally found the video in question

 

 

0:45 seconds in. Is it just a small LED flickering on the pantograph?

 

Neat.

 

I'd love to do this on my trains but I am likely to burn my house down or something in the process.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Keikyu

[mrp]

A search for パンタスパークキット (Panta-Spark-Kit) gets some hits.

Here’s a garage business selling kits and installation service:

http://pyontetu.com/goods/spark2/toppage.htm

Includes a couple of photos showing how it's connected.

[JR 500系]

That's a nice find!

 

It's a very nice system, adding more realisticism to the train model! But there has to be a way to control that flickering, right? We wouldn't want too many flickers on the shinkansen now if not it'll not look real as in real life shinkansen pantographs are almost flicker-free.

 

We can also fix them on limited express trains right? Now, how to get about buying some? It seems it's not cheap too, at 6800 yen with installation charges all in for one panta...

Edited February 9, 2015 by JR500 のぞみ

[kvp]

Interesting! It seems to be made out of a rectifier bridge, a zener with a resistor and a capacitor as a voltage regulator, a pic microcontroller, two resistors for the leds and the two leds. Everything is soldered together with a dead bug construction method involving chips glued to a suface with their legs up. The minimal voltage could be around 3-4V for the controller to start up.

 

The actual spark pattern in the code is a combination of wait, turn on, wait, turn off patterns assembled to imitate the sparking pantograph by using the right delay values.

 

ps: The 6700 yen is probably divided up with 700 yen for parts (with two leds / chip) and 6000 for the work to get it together. Not having a circuit board, every circuit has to be custom assembled to fit into the available space.

Edited February 9, 2015 by kvp

[mrp]

Yeah, that hand-made design looks pretty bad.

 

Google also shows a few hits for a nicer kit from zhuanglong/GlanzLight that uses a circuit board.

http://zhuanglong.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2014-05-29

 

Looks like they mainly sell via Yahoo Auctions:

http://page6.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/f149715453

 

And one retail outlet.

http://zhuanglong.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2015-02-01

 

From what I can understand, it looks like Zhuang Long has been around for a while on Yahoo and they’re just starting this year to package their products - including cheaper interior lighting - for retail.

[cteno4]

Mrp,

 

Thanks that's the one I saw a while back. Looks like growing garage business! Perhaps Nariichi san can source them...

 

Jeff

[JR 500系]

Here's another really nice video, this time on a Kato E4 set:

 

[Eurostar25]

Nice find there JR500, it's a neat looking effect

 

I actually found an advertisement in the back of a magazine I picked up while in Japan last year. It seems to show a kitset for it too

[katoftw]

They are bright.  On the too bright side of things for me.

 

On the last video linked by JR500, you don't realize how bright they are until the train is up gainst a unscened wall.  With trees or darker paint, they would probably absorb the excessive light beams.

Edited February 25, 2015 by katoftw

[JR 500系]

It's a nice touch, really adds realistic detail to the train set when it's running...

 

I was thinking about this: We train fans would understand arcing and the lights from the Pantograph, but I think normal people wouldn't recognise or can't be bothered with to look at the Pantograph, hence some wouldn't even recognize the flare from the pantograph. Even of they did see, they probably wouldn't know what's arcing or cant be bothered with it at all. So when they view these models, they probably would be asking:" What are those bright flares from the top of the train?

 

Nonetheless, for the trained eye, it really looks nice and adds more detail to the models. But is there a way to twit the frequency? It seems too often, and when it arcs too often I think Doctor Yellow needs to come in.... Also, I've always see them on shinkansen models only, can it be fitted on other models like Limited Express trains too?    

[cteno4]

Well the real,thing can be quite intense light. Lighting does not scale linearly, so when you light models it can take some fiddling to get the right effect. In this case I think it's probably something that woud need to be brighter in order for it to show up well enough and have a good effect compared to building and train lighting which is usually way overdone.

 

Jeff