Kato 83 800 Yokosuka KuMoNi

[Irish Padre]

I've just bought one if these - Kato 4861 1. Did these units ever run on their own without a trailer attached? Thanks, David

Edited December 20, 2014 by Irish Padre

[E6系]

Hello Mr Irish Padre,

 

It is the parcel van.  When I was at school the parcel van was attached to 115系 Yokosuka colour.  You can see the photo of similar parcel van here:

 

 

... and here:

 

 

 

Preferred consisting was to join with 115系800番台 Yokosuka.  Kato make the 8-car set, but it may be out of stock: http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10212132

Edited December 20, 2014 by E6系

[Irish Padre]

Thanks E6 !!!

[kvp]

On the other hand, they are fully self propelled, so they can run on their own or can even be used for rolling stock transfers. (in this aspect they are very similar to the british motor luggage vans) Many of them got remodelled into maintenance vehicles.

 

ps: E6系, those are great photos!

[E6系]

Hello kvp,

 

I am reasonably sure that the last car on the second pic would have dropped of the consist and run a branch line somewhere.  I doubt they would have run solo on the Chuo Main Line due to congestion.

 

I remember seeing one on a Minobu 115系 at Kofu in 1984/5.  It probably got to Kofu on the back of a Yokosuka 115系.  Yokosuka 115系 ran all the way from Shinjuku through Nagano.  I never saw a Yokosuka parcel van at Shinjuku.

 

BTW, the pics are not mine.  I found them on a Japanese site.

[velotrain]

I'm a bit confused.  Kato 4861 1 is the Kumoni 83, and the first car in the second image from E6 is the same - the 4 small windows in the middle can be used as a distinguishing characteristic.  However, the second car is obviously different, but the same as the car in the first photo. 

 

It looks closer to a Kumoyuni 74, but the door and window placement are different.  No doubt it's from some other series of baggage van.

 

Are the terms Kumoni and Kumoyuni interchangeable?

Is there a site that shows "all" variations of baggage vans?

 

 

I got interested in these baggage cars as the latest HS News shows Greenmax is producing the Kumoyuni 81 in the Shonan colors:

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10184371

 

although it's rather pricey for an unpowered car, it certainly looks handsome.

 

Since they previously offered another variation (Kumoyuni 81 + Kumoha 60 Skyblue Oito Line) as a 5-car set, they may well be offering a powered version in the future.

 

 

However, for exactly the same price, you can get a Kato powered Kumoyuni 74 in Shonan colors:

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10175553

 

 

Kato is offering Kumoni83100 (Trailer) + Kumoni13 as a 2-car set in Yukosuga colors:

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10283190

 

 

Kato also offer the Kumoni 83 as a trailer in the Yukosuga colors, if Irish Padre wants a 2-car set:

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10212131

 

I found an image of the interior (of ), and wondered what sort of cargo they used the overhead crane for - although, this could be one of the cars kvp mentions as converted for maintenance use

.

 

[miyakoji]

Ni stands for nimotsu, baggage.  Yu stands for yuubin, mail/post.  If you look at the Kato item page http://www.katomodels.com/n/kumoni83/ the top image is the KUMOYUNI 82-800, the bottom two are KUMONI 83 800.  The second car in E6's second image appears to have two crew doors toward the front, so I think it is a KUMONI 83.  I don't think there was a KUMONI 74, only a KUMOYUNI, and it didn't have separate doors into the cab and main areas: http://kokuden.net/mc53/sub.htm/sub-NiYuu/sub-Niyuu-74/sub-Niyuu-74.htm .  I'm not sure about the crane, maybe it's original, maybe it was added after mail/baggage service ended and the new JR companies repurposed these as work cars.

 

edit: yeah that KUMOYUNI 81 looks awesome

Edited July 4, 2015 by miyakoji

[velotrain]

Thanks much for the info miyakoji.

 

> " I don't think there was a KUMONI 74"

You're the only one who mentioned this  ;-)

[miyakoji]

Since they previously offered another variation (Kumoyuni 81 + Kumoha 60 Skyblue Oito Line) as a 5-car set, they may well be offering a powered version in the future.

 

 

 

MicroAce A3994?  This looks cooooool: http://www.microace-arii.co.jp/products/img/A3994_p.jpg

 

Thanks much for the info miyakoji.

 

> " I don't think there was a KUMONI 74"

You're the only one who mentioned this  ;-)

No problem.  I'm not 100% on there not having been a KUMONI 74, but I didn't see any mention of one.

[velotrain]

> MicroAce A3994?  This looks cooooool: http://www.microace-...img/A3994_p.jpg

 

It does indeed - just the thing to run with my deep blue Rapit ;-)

 

Here's an interesting paint scheme on a kumoyuni 143 - it almost makes me think of Dutch, or maybe Swedish, railways.

 

 

 

 

I was going to translate the text, but the image is on one of those sites that opens with the text in jibberish - does anyone know what causes this and if anything can be done to correct it?

 

http://www.uraken.net/rail/alltrain/kumoya143.html

 

I'm getting really interested in these baggage/mail cars - were there any diesel-electric versions?

 

Perhaps a small layout having these dropping goods off at a small freight depot, with final local delivery by a tram freight motor - say, something like the World Kougei one!

[miyakoji]

Look around for the text encoding settings in your browser and, in this case, set it to Shift_JIS

[kvp]

The encoding is shift-jis, something that was popular in Japan before windows 95 came along with 'modern' iso code pages.

 

The contents after transcoding and google translate:

 

143 system (holding company: JR East / original holding company: JNR) JNR / JR Electric Cars Series 143Kumoya 143-9 (Photo: Tokyo General Rolling Stock Center / Photo: back Henkine good)● Basic data Debut year: 1977● tractor that corresponds to the ATC line of the Tokyo metropolitan area Kumoya 143 form, business vehicles that appeared to correspond to the replacement of the ATC of the old cars in the metropolitan area of ​​the route. 0 series and there are two types of 50 series, 0 Bandai equipped with ATC, it is placed in each commuter routes in the metropolitan area. Since it does not use the ATC to the vehicle base, there is also a vehicle to which it is being removed. 50s is one that is remodeled from Kumoni 143 form below, ATC is not installed originally. Also, luggage train Kumoni 143 form for this group, the Ministry of Posts and Telecommunications owned postal vehicles (private cars) Kumoyu 143 form, also mail and luggage if concrete car Kumoyuni 143 form is present. But luggage transport in 1986, because the railway postal transport has been completed, Kumoni 143 form and Kumoyu 143 form has disappeared format. However Sotobo, since left newspapers cargo transport Uchibo, Kumoyuni 143 forms survive, currently is further diverted to another use.● format guide and color variation Kumoya 143-1 ~ (Kumoya 143-4 Tokaido Kozu Station / shooting: Rokumaru acid) Kumoya 143 form 0 Bandai has a through-door to the front in a group that has been newly built. It should be noted, Kumoya 143-4 of Kozu vehicle center Shonan color. Kumoya 143-51 ~ (Kumoya 143-52 Chuo Line Shiojiri Station / shooting: G train) Appearance 4 and 5 of Kumoni 143 form, which lost its use as a baggage car nearly diversion that remain in the business for the car. 2014 currently, 51 Niigata, 52 are used, such as the replacement in Matsumoto. Kumoyuni 143-1 ~ (Kumoyuni 143-1 Shinonoi Line Obasute Station / shooting: G train)Minobu line appeared along with the new performance of. Then, through the Nagaoka, it is engaged in newspaper transport in Makuhari, 1 and 3 are used as a replacement for a vehicle of the 2014 current Nagano comprehensive vehicle center, and be equipped with a double-headed coupler. (Kumoyuni 143-2 Tokyo General Rolling Stock Center / shooting: phosphorus) Tokyo General vehicle Kumoyuni center was Ili-over car 143-2.2010 (2010) year in dismantling.JNR · JR other trains and railcars to ListTravel and rail Memoirs top page of Japan

 

On the other hand, these mail cars were often rebuilds and mods of older passenger stock (many times 101 series kumoha-s) and every depot modified their cars differently and even with variations between each rebuild. Some of the cars were rebuilt as baggage and some of them as mail baggage and afaik there were even some purpose built units. After the end of the baggage/mail service, many of them became departement work motor, this was the time when some of them got their small cranes. During the rebuild, the window/door layout was changed on many of them. A few even got rebuilt back to passenger cars. Their biggest advantage was that they could run together with most 1xx series trains (even as control cars) and also move cars of these sets without extra equipment. Nowdays most of them are retired and the end of the 115 series operation could mean an end for the remaining work cars too.

 

Standard operation for baggage cars were to run together with 113/115 series trains, while mail or parcel/baggage cars could run alone or together with a passenger set and then take a freight branch on the way alone or in a set of two. The work motor variants were mostly used for rolling stock and parts movements and broken train rescue. Nowdays modern stock movement is often solved by using two halfs of a good set sandwitching the broken cars, providing power and air and a locomotive as traction power. The work motors were often used for route learning and driver training as they had very similar controls as the normal passenger variants.

 

Imho there were no diesel electric variants of these 1xx series based cars, but many smaller railroads operated combines or dedicated parcel or freight units, also often modified from older diesel cars. Diesels in Japan during the JNR times were mostly diesel hydraulic, so diesel electric dmu-s were not really used anywhere.

Edited July 5, 2015 by kvp

[Welshbloke]

Bit of a resurrection, but if you look at Kato's diagram of realistic formations for their 165 series there's one with a couple of these attached to one end. I've just ordered an unpowered Kumoni on that basis, as I'm planning to buy a 165 next month after finding a couple of the additional centre cars cheaply.

[miyakoji]

Bit of a resurrection, but if you look at Kato's diagram of realistic formations for their 165 series there's one with a couple of these attached to one end. I've just ordered an unpowered Kumoni on that basis, as I'm planning to buy a 165 next month after finding a couple of the additional centre cars cheaply.

 

Awesome diagram.  The Komagane (dark blue line) connected Shinjuku to Tenryukyo, and the Minobu (green line) connected Shinjuku to Minobu, both via the Chuo Line.  While attached to the larger Alps formation, I guess the passengers would have had access to its dining car.  I can almost taste the natto.

 

They really should run some JNR-era EMUs with a period-correct dining car and menu :).

[Welshbloke]

It reminded me of the old British Rail EMU "boat trains" which ran from London to Dover and Folkestone. These were originally formed with three four-car EMUs (one of which had a buffet car, through gangways allowed access) and a couple of motor luggage vans. The MLVs were fitted with batteries, so they could leave the third rail supply and trundle along the quayside to collect luggage directly from the ship. The battery power was only enough to run for about 15-20 miles, although there were a few incidences of it being used to divert a parcels train (MLV running alone) down a non-electrified branch. Apparently it would work as long as the signaller was aware, and managed to avoid having to stop the train. There wasn't enough power left to re-start by that point in the run...

 

My Japanese is pretty much non-existent, so am I interpreting the diagram correctly in thinking that the coaches fifth and sixth from left in the train led by the two Kumoni are intended to be 4059s with the green stripe? What does the text next to the diagram of a coupler beneath them say, by the way?

 

My plan is to end up with a 165 formed much like that, only minus the powered Kumoni, one 4059 and the coaches from the 10-333 pack. Might add them later but I'm concentrating on getting something running first!