tomix thomas range questions

[sunhuntin]

bit of a back story... i am looking to salvage a portable n scale layout built by a former member of the club im in. he got the track laid [unsure what brand.] and part of scenery, then got in a grump with several of the guys and quit. the track is in the form of an oval with two points and a curve between the two.

i havent measured the radius yet, but i am wondering what the minimum is that james, henry and the express coaches can handle? ive been googling for several weeks and the best i found said henry couldnt handle a 9inch radius.

i only have thomas thus far, but dont want to go putting scenery etc on if i need to reconfigure the tracks. i would like to use it at a show in september, as without this layout, thomas will have to stay home. lol.

 

also does anyone own the 3 buildings from the thomas range that can give me measurements of the bases, so i can work them into my plans somehow. can the windmill and waterwheel be powered? would also like to put in a couple of sidings to store the other engines and rolling stock as i acquire them.

 

thanks so much for any advice or hints.

[railsquid]

I had a quick look on the Japanese internet but not much information there either.

 

If Henry's a 4-6-0 (or 4-6-2), realistically the minimum radius will be around 250mm, which must be about 9 inches.

[kvp]

The basic radiuses for Tomix cars and engines are either R280 for mainline equipment or R140 for trams and branchline equipment. A select few can handle R103 too. Even my 20m e231 and 113 series runs on R140. However some of my japanse two axle boxcars have problems with R140 S curves, so it would be safer to say R280 as the safe radius. If the layout doesn't have S curves (not even around the turnouts), then it might be possible to run Thomas and some of the smaller engines on R140 or R150 with most of the two axle and bogie cars. The larger engies are trickier and would probably need the R280. But imho the best way to find out would be to run your Thomas and see if it runs.

 

ps: Almost all Tomix equipment runs on R280, even most shinkansen. (they don't look good, but run without derailing)

[railsquid]

 

ps: Almost all Tomix equipment runs on R280, even most shinkansen. (they don't look good, but run without derailing)

 

Don't tell anyone I said this, but my Tomix 100 series goes round Tomix 243mm curves fine, though not at any great speed (and look even worse).

[sunhuntin]

thanks, guys. railsquid, interesting to know there wasnt much info on the japanese net. i found a video review of the tomix henry on youtube, and it was all in japanese. makes me wish i had studied this instead of french in high school.

 

so i will keep it to the larger size to be safe. will have to go and measure, though it wont be a huge issue if henry cant run on the portable, as the club has a large fixed layout suitable for longer engines. thomas runs like a dream on it. dont even know if the portable works, might go out tomorrow and see if i can get it out to test it.

[beakaboy]

Hi Charley. I have The Tomix Thomas as well as Henry and 3 coaches. I run them on my Japanese layout which is a large oval with broad curves with no problems. Sometimes the front bogie on steamers can derail on slight imperfections in track or point work. I found the coaches were very light and easy to derail due to fine scale wheels, so I have added a little weight to each one underneath the chassis. In the long run it is better to allow a larger curve for more reliable running , especially when exhibiting. My Thomas is a recent model which is a superb runner with fine scale wheels. My friend had an earlier model which was unreliable and a bit erratic in its running. You could always try B train shorties on the layout. I got a great response running my 700 series shorty last year at our annual show.

[brill27mcb]

The actual Tomix-produced set, with Thomas, Annie & Clarabel, an illustrated vinyl mat and an oval of track, uses the R243 curves. You can go down to the Tomix "Mini" curves if you are willing to remove some of the British "buffers" from the corners of the "wagon" frames. I can confirm this info from actual hands-on experience. 

 

Some of the bigger pieces in the Thomas range may not be as flexible as these shorter locos and wagons.

 

Rich K.

[sunhuntin]

thanks, beakaboy. how can you tell how recent a model is? i would love to see pics of your layout. where did you get henry from?
 

rich, thats good info on the track provided in the set, mine was just the engine and 2 coaches. will keep the wider curves as much as possible... dont want to be removing anything that cant be replaced easily.

[sunhuntin]

went to the club today, and after a couple of hours with the chisel, a sanding block and vaccum cleaner, i have a decent looking layout. havent tested the track yet, and it still needs work. i think the track is a bachmann type of set track.

 

this had two styrofoam and plaster blocks in the middle of both sections. the plaster was falling off without any help whatsoever. the styrofoam was a bit more persistant, but gave in eventually.

 

its 1200x600. havent checked the track yet, will do on thursday. will do a basecoat before anything else scenery wise.

[kvp]

Nice, simple layout. Both routes have only simple curves, so no S curves. This means there should be no problems with the 2 axle cars, so if the locomotives can run on them, then the rolling stock would be ok too.

[katoftw]

If the track doesn't work.  Rip it all up and start again.  Looks like large curves, so might be able to go newer and smaller and keep the track away from the sides.  Hopefully that is not the case.  But it does look pretty rough at the moment.

Edited December 16, 2014 by katoftw

[sunhuntin]

thanks, you two.

 

ive got plans to remove the inner loop, but keep both points.

the one closest to the cupboard, which is the front, will go to a 3 way point and engine shed to house the 3 engines not in use once purchased.

the rear point would go to a simple siding for excess trucks/coaches.

 

all depends what kind of track i can find in the spares box. if theres nothing suitable, will have to rip up and replace with something else. id rather go to normal track as opposed to this with the plastic ballast. looks ick and is covered in plaster and paint.

 

kato, im wanting to run the likes of henry, so need to keep the curves pretty big. it was laid by a complete incompetent which explains the poor workmanship.

[beakaboy]

Charley. I am not sure how long ago I brought the Thomas and Henry sets. Must be at least 3yrs. I also got 2 extra coaches for Henry as well as a mail car and 2 (2 wagon sets) of freight cars. Was trying to get James set, but it was on waiting list forever. All were purchased from Hobby Search

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10016170

I am guessing about the newer version of Thomas, but from memory it had only recently come out when I purchased.

The photos of the layout at your club- A test of the track will soon tell if its worth proceeding with the track. sometimes corrosion sets in and makes it easier to start again. I would use several feeder wires spaced around the track, if it hasn't already been done. I also usually solder most of the fishplates, except where you have insulated joiners for setting up an isolated block with an on/off switch for power. As Katoftw mentioned the track is too close to the edge of board which will be a problem when displaying layout. Children bumping layout or touching things and next minute loco ,etc on floor. I used clear plastic board on my layout, but had to allow room for loco and rolling stock.

If you go to the introduction thread, post number 956 has a link to my Havana Layout. Post number 958 explains how to see my albums.

Trademe has a Thomas set at moment for sale. Not cheap though and looking at pkt , its an old set. My Tomix set has the product code on the bottom right.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=820212329

someone also had a Henry coach for $30 recently, but I paid about $12-15 for mine.

Edited December 17, 2014 by beakaboy

[katoftw]

Funny thing is now the James set is the easiest to get.  Thomas and Henry are near non exsistent.  Or you pay 250-300% of their new value.

 

There was talk that another manufacturer had the rights to make more.  But nothing has come of it to my knowledge.

[sunhuntin]

thanks, beaka. thats the same seller i got my set from. runs like a dream. wish i had seen henrys coach! does the layout im using look like henry will work on it without too many issues?

 

the track is pretty shoddy right now, with paint and plaster all over. i looked underneath and didnt see any feeder wires, was looking to see where the green wires by the points went to. also likely hasnt been soldered as the guy that built was more into scenery than decent track work. [an "artist" in his words] :confused5: im not sure it was tested when it was built even! we have a pro track layer, so will get him to help as time allows.

 

am half hoping it doesnt go, haha, but will be easier if it does as the rest of the spare track is just as bad and i cant afford to replace it myself. if i do replace the track i will keep the basic shape it has, along with the adjustments i noted above, and try to work out a way to bring the track in from the edge. the show im aiming at will have everything roped and out of arms reach, but that doesnt allow for defects causing derailments.

 

would be neat if someone like kato took the rights and made more characters/destinations.

[beakaboy]

I have dealt with Nariichi(user name Nartak) from ModelTrainPlus.net several times and he is very helpful. He might be able to track down Henry and some coaches for you. There is also Dave (Keitaro-user name) from Loco1hobby.net. Have never used him but others highly recommend.

There were a few buildings made as well for these trains

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10009699

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10009700

with the layout, it looks like the curves would suit Henry.If the track runs okay,I would ditch the small circle where the points link and run one point to something like a quarry and the other could be to a station with another point added for twin track into the station. Just a thought. The wires are from the Bachmann electric point. The problem with set track like this is the limited layouts you can build, unlike Kato unitrack or Tomix track. I use mostly flex track in my layouts. Less joints means less problems and you can have whatever curve you wish. Takes a bit of knowledge to use it properly, but I would never go back to set track.

[sunhuntin]

good links, thank you for that. good to know it looks suitable for henry. there was also a station released. im curious over whether the water wheel and windmill can be powered or not.

 

the track runs, and is bachmann ez track. i have lifted part of it to allow for the sidings i want to place, but may look at replacing the lot with either tomix or kato next year, as im yet to locate a 3 way point in the existing type. its not essential right now, but will be hard to proceed with scenery without it. i cant pull the track in much from the side as it pinches the joins. may look at cutting a piece of coreflute to put underneath, to catch any escape artists.

 

can you please tell me how long henry is? this will help with planning the 3 way siding since he is the longest. also the length of his coach for the rolling stock siding. may put a 3 way in that side as well.

 

what tomix track set would be most suitable?

[kvp]

For the long coaches, you can count an approximate length of 18-20 meters, so 14 cm. There are two coaches, one in the set and one extra.

 

For tracks, you can try a basic Tomix r280 oval and the rest as separate pieces (packs of 2 or 4). If you need three way turnouts, then Tomix track is a good choice. Otherwise peco makes good 3 way turnouts in their code 50 range.

 

I would leave the two through tracks and add the extra sidings, since the 2 tracks make it easy to swap trains.

[sunhuntin]

thanks, KVP. so they are 14cm each? thanks for the track info... much appreciated.

 

the engine shed and back siding are purely for display and storage purposes, and the track wont be wired up, though i would like to light the shed so kids can see the other trains easier.

[beakaboy]

Charley. I have dug out my Tomix Thomas gear. Henry is 19cm long including buffers and the coaches are 17cm including buffers. They all look like TT scale compared to my other Japanese coaches and wagons. I 'll take a photo to show the comparison. This means you will have to allow extra height in any tunnels and also extra room for scenery near the tracks. I had a test run and Henry runs very nice. The coach with Henry in the pkt does not have windows all the way along the side. Almost like a mail or luggage /passenger coach. The other coaches I have feature full length windows. Interesting in that all the coaches have wide view windows on one side and smaller ones on other side. 

For the track near the edge of layout table, why not add an extra piece of board to the layout on each side to widen it. Once you paint it and attach a curtain to table, no one will notice. Our club has an OO Thomas layout for shows. They got hold of some Thomas curtain material and cut it to fit around their layout. Looks really good! Most of our club layouts feature Perspex type clear plastic around them to protect trains ,etc from busy hands ( Mostly adult, I might add) only about 2-3cm high to stop falls to the ground. Usually derailments when you are talking to the public. Most probably you could power the windmill and waterwheel . A new shaft would probably be required (existing is probably plastic ) to connect up to a motor. Depending on room, you could mount the motor directly to shaft of windmill, etc using rubber hose material like old method for battery operated boats with motor to prop shaft. low voltage to keep speed down. The large NZR type layout that Napier Marineland used to operate had a lot of animation. I was told they used pulleys and tensioned bands running from a few motors. i.e. one motor powered  a lot of animations. wished I had been able to look underneath

Here's an option for a station. Just  change the name ! http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10009822

[kvp]

 

The coach with Henry in the pkt does not have windows all the way along the side. Almost like a mail or luggage /passenger coach. The other coaches I have feature full length windows. Interesting in that all the coaches have wide view windows on one side and smaller ones on other side. 

I think those are meant to be GWR third class coaches and the one in the set is a brake/third. (luggage/guards van and passenger composite)

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_01_2011/post-6981-0-81438900-1296292847_thumb.jpg

The small windows are on the compartement side, while the large ones are on the corridor side.

 

 

They all look like TT scale compared to my other Japanese coaches and wagons. 

I would be interested in the comparision too, since in theory they should be 1:148 and not much larger. (Nj is 1:150, european N is 1:160, and Nuk is 1:148) Do they fit the normal Tomix platforms?

[beakaboy]

Guys, apologies for the muck up. I used the TT side of my scale ruler instead of the 1:1 actual cm side to measure Henry and the coaches. The coaches are 14.5cms in length and 2.1cms wide. Henry is 15.5cm long. Haven't got any station platforms handy to test with coaches. some photos attached showing the size difference. Also some Thomas freight trucks with Peco N scale freight trucks for comparison.

 

[sunhuntin]

nice collection! thanks heaps for the info, beaka. will be able to block areas off for the sidings and build around them. given how long henrys coaches are, i will put a 3 way in at the back too, to allow for the trucks and percys mail cars.

 

i never saw the napier layout, and if i had, i would have been a kid and not thinking of the mechanics behind it. will keep it in mind, as it would be neat to add movement within the layout. will look at making the base wider on the sides, have to see what scraps of wood i can find, shouldnt be too hard. will hit the hardware store today and get some paint charts and decide what green to use, then get a few testpots.

 

thanks again, everyone! :)

[sunhuntin]

bit of an update... hit the hardware store yesterday and grabbed some test pots [resene limerick] and laid down the first coat. needs at least one more, possibly two. once thats done, the track will be relaid and then work on it will stop until i get the parts i need to move forwards. any scenery i put on will be on the back corners.

 

also, the tomix 3 way points, is there an unpowered version? and ive seen listings for a left and a right, but the points look identical except for which side the wiring is on. do i need one of each? thanks!

 

Edited December 23, 2014 by sunhuntin

[katoftw]

the 3 way turnout has a R280 and R541 curve.  so the left and right versions are opposites.  doesn't really matter which you get if it is for a yard.