Echigo Tokimeki Rlwy ET122 dmu

[bikkuri bahn]

Delivery of new units (based on JR West kiha 122) for the third sector railway, nicknamed Tokitetsu, which will run on the Hokuriku Main Line post-shinkansen opening (March 2015)

 

at the Niigata Transys transfer point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1olHvX0zLyg

 

Showing to the press at Itoigawa yesterday:

[Sacto1985]

Very nice, but why DMU? Is the company not interested in running 20,000 V AC overhead wiring between Itoigawa and Tsuruga?

[bikkuri bahn]

Dual AC/DC railcars are expensive, even second-hand refurbished ones, and apparently the breakdown/fire risk of secondhand units is greater than even new diesel units.

[kvp]

I think they are also preparing for the removal of the catenary. If nobody is using it, then it won't be kept energised and the little freight that remains on the lines could be served with small diesels. Also, seeing single unit diesels looks like there won't be a lot of passenger traffic either.

[bikkuri bahn]

The stretch of the Hokuriku Main Line in question still sees 12 regularly scheduled container freights/day in each direction, and is a major freight corridor between northern Japan and western Japan (bypassing the Kanto region).  It unlikely that it will be de-energized, given the numerous tunnels and that such an action for a main line would be without precedent in Japanese railway history.

[miyakoji]

I think we discussed this when the DMUs were announced.  Because of the overall low traffic, they'll be sufficient.  I thought too that they would want EMUs.  There are plenty of small private railways around that are electric, Bataden and Choshi Dentetsu come to mind.

 

The Shinano Tetsudou is geographically close and also an ex-JR East section of track, they're still electric, using former JR East rolling stock and, at sometime in the near future, getting some new cars.  Do they have significantly higher ridership (and if so, why didn't JR East keep the operation)?

[bikkuri bahn]

Generally these zairaisen lines that parallel shinkansen lines in the hinterlands are taken over by third sector operations as they are no longer financially viable, as they have lost the lucrative intercity traffic to the shinkansen line.  They are characterised by patronage with peaks in the morning and evening and empty midday, passengers mainly high school students and the elderly, both who are traveling on subsidized fares.  Shinano Tetsudo may be a little better, as they serve an area (Karuizawa/Ueda/Bessho Onsen) with more tourist appeal and a good number of smaller cities/towns along its route. Perhaps gmat would know something, he lived in the region for some years.

[kvp]

One thing about these DMU-s is that they are very low maintenance and could be serviced by a local car mechanic. Preferably the same who fixes the school bus and the garbage truck. They are just diesel motors with a hydraulic transmission. In single car operation the weight of a high voltage AC drive system (transformer, traction control box) could be higher than the weight of the diesel motor. AC electric operation starts to get more efficient above 3 or 4 cars. Electric traction is more viable on DC lines because a DC traction system could be as simple as a hand controller (like in any old streetcar) and also serviceable by a better skilled local electrician. Also i think these local council operators don't really have the money to get hybrid or other high tech EMU-s and the cheapest option (costing around the same a bigger bus) was getting diesel cars. In the previous thread, someone mentioned that the Japanese market for DMU-s is larger, so the market value for used equipment is also higher in case the service gets discontinued. Considering that with single car operation and below one train an hour a road bus could be much cheaper (because the road is maintained with government funds and have to be mainted for private traffic anyway), these small lines are constantly in danger of getting switched to bus operation.

[Nick_Burman]

I think they are also preparing for the removal of the catenary. If nobody is using it, then it won't be kept energised and the little freight that remains on the lines could be served with small diesels. Also, seeing single unit diesels looks like there won't be a lot of passenger traffic either.

 

If the wires come down JRF will be in a pickle - the don't have enough high-horsepower diesel locos to go around and aren't willing to buy any.

 

The reason for using diesel cars are the AC/DC gap (as mentioned before) and the fact that in case the operation is a flop the cars can find other users easily.

 

One plus to these cars is that the have transverse seats...makes for a nicer ride. And they are good looking...

 

One thing however which puzzles me is the fact that lines which have been bypassed by Shinkansen lines still retain double track...why not (where possible) single them?

 

 

Cheers NB

[Nick_Burman]

One thing about these DMU-s is that they are very low maintenance and could be serviced by a local car mechanic. Preferably the same who fixes the school bus and the garbage truck. They are just diesel motors with a hydraulic transmission. In single car operation the weight of a high voltage AC drive system (transformer, traction control box) could be higher than the weight of the diesel motor. AC electric operation starts to get more efficient above 3 or 4 cars. Electric traction is more viable on DC lines because a DC traction system could be as simple as a hand controller (like in any old streetcar) and also serviceable by a better skilled local electrician. Also i think these local council operators don't really have the money to get hybrid or other high tech EMU-s and the cheapest option (costing around the same a bigger bus) was getting diesel cars. In the previous thread, someone mentioned that the Japanese market for DMU-s is larger, so the market value for used equipment is also higher in case the service gets discontinued. Considering that with single car operation and below one train an hour a road bus could be much cheaper (because the road is maintained with government funds and have to be mainted for private traffic anyway), these small lines are constantly in danger of getting switched to bus operation.

 

Kvp, I think MAV's Bzmot cars are only diesel cars left around which are so "agricultural" as to be able to serviced by a car/bus mechanic...most modern rolling stock is a computer with a train attached. Gone are the days when anyone with a bit of training could service rolling stock, today you really need skilled staff to deal with it - and more than often it is someone wielding a laptop than a wrench.

 

 

Cheers NB

[kvp]

 

One thing however which puzzles me is the fact that lines which have been bypassed by Shinkansen lines still retain double track...why not (where possible) single them?

That would cost money and makes it harder to bypass a broken down train. They can single track them during the next major maintenance, if they ever get any.

 

 

I think MAV's Bzmot cars are only diesel cars left around which are so "agricultural" as to be able to serviced by a car/bus mechanic...most modern rolling stock is a computer with a train attached.

I think kiha40-s are also in the same category (just a bit older) as a bzmot, including similar MU systems. Also most modern buses look under the covers exactly like a modern DMU. Not to mention a westinghouse airbrake and a penumatic suspension system looks exactly the same in a railcar and in any old bus. (many hungarian buses and multi trailer trucks have through air brake hoses /front and back/ and some even have MU cables for drawbar connected operation with passive steering on the back unit, sadly they are going out of style like the old tractor trailer buses) Interesting fact that the most popular hungarian cars are the locally manufactured Suzuki small cars, so the cheaper end of japanese technology is present in eastern europe too. For modern DMU-s there are the articulated Siemens Desiro railcars, which are actually based on the cutting edge Flying Hamburger design modified to be partially low floor.

 

To remain on topic and considering that i very much like the design of the new ET122-s, does anyone have the detailed technical specification of the new DMU-s? Mostly the MU control standard, since i did find that they are based on the JRE KiHa122-s. The diesel motors are from Komatsu, which is a well known manufacturer of construction and mining equipment. (i have to assume modern bulldozers and skid steer loaders are also beyond the capabilities of a normal mechanic) The tricky part is the Japanese MU control equipment, because i can't seem to find any information about them. The latest ones i found on the net are from the 1960-ies.

[kvp]

After googling for some information in japanese and also trying to translate it with google, i've found the following:

-the engines are Komatsu SA6D140H diesels

-the braking system is also electrical (brake by wire, with an option to connect conventional pipes for towing)

-they are electronically controlled through a can bus, like in any modern truck

-the transmission is an automatic liquid one, with a slipping clutch between stop and idle and a direct clutch above idle with a fixed ratio (engine rpm is directly proportional with wheel rpm)

-direction changing is by clutch integrated with the reduction gearing

-there is a smaller, electronically controlled slipping clutch that powers the main generator at a fixed rotation (and thus output frequency and voltage)

-door control and other passenger systems (hvac, info boards) are common with JRW trains (including emu-s)

 

Overall the whole system looks like a combination of a modern truck and a modern bus. Multiple unit working is achieved by using a common bus for motor power and brake commands that are routed to all engines and brakes in the whole consist. This routing is also used (for brake commands only) on modern trailer trucks and allows the control panel to receive status information from all connected subsystems, including data from the connected trailer. Overall it's a nice collection of various mainly off the shelf systems integrated into a low cost, easy to maintain railbus with a very nice design.

 

ps: Any news about which manufacturer will make them as models?

[cteno4]

Nice looking train, paint job and logos are very elegant.

 

Smart to use off the shelf technology and repurpose rather than reinvent the wheel on a budget driven job as well as potential maintaince savings down the road, nice to see.

 

This is going to be a nice model. I'm betting ma.

 

Jeff

[Sacto1985]

One wonders could this model be the basis for replacing all those aging KiHa 40/47/48 models? We know JR East bought the KiHa 100/110 series DMU, and maybe the ET122 could become a new KiHa model for JR West and JR Shikoku on non-electrified lines.

[miyakoji]

In the case of JR West, maybe not this specifically, but the KIHA127 on which this is based. They just haven't built them in large numbers yet.

 

As for JR Shikoku, they've been getting new DMUs in small batches over the last several years, I think these are their KIHA40 successor.