No power on part of the track.

[Sascha]

Hello. I have run into an issue I can't figure out. I just added a Kato Double Crossover Turnout (Kato 20-210) to my layout, and for some weird reason part of my layout doesn't receive power.

I attached a file that shows the direction of the power loss.The blue parts are the feeder. It starts at the end of the Crossover, and ends pretty much exactly at the opposite side of the crossover, and only on the outer Track, the inner runs fine.Could it be that it is due to the Crossover is used, and might be broke?

Any help is greatly appreciated. :) no1.bmp

[cteno4]

Sascha,

 

The double crossover is insulated at the crossover point on the inner rails, so all 4 tracks off the double crossover require power. It looks like you have a bad unijoiner (or maybe an insulated one) in the area where the power drops out on the other side (top of drawing) and thus that section of track on around to the crossover won't get power from your feeder over in the bottom left.

 

Check all the unijoiners in the area. Sometimes its just a loose one and once and a whole the metal joiner inside gets pushed out.

 

Good luck

 

Jeff

[katoftw]

3 feeders = 3 powerpacks?

Edited October 25, 2014 by katoftw

[yakumo381]

Sascha,

 

The double crossover is insulated at the crossover point on the inner rails, so all 4 tracks off the double crossover require power. It looks like you have a bad unijoiner (or maybe an insulated one) in the area where the power drops out on the other side (top of drawing) and thus that section of track on around to the crossover won't get power from your feeder over in the bottom left.

 

Check all the unijoiners in the area. Sometimes its just a loose one and once and a whole the metal joiner inside gets pushed out.

 

Good luck

 

Jeff

Every now and then get the same problem on my Niihama layout where a joiner goes high resistance and almost always one right at the back and difficult to reach or in a tunnel.

 

The rail bridge is another problem most probably down to differential thermal expansion between the bridge, rails and layout - find that the actual metal clip in the joiner gradually moves out of position until continuity is lost.

 

BTW, what are peoples experience with the rail cleaning truck sold by Tomix - is it effective or not in keeping good rail cleanliness and continuity?

[Sascha]

Sascha,

 

The double crossover is insulated at the crossover point on the inner rails, so all 4 tracks off the double crossover require power. It looks like you have a bad unijoiner (or maybe an insulated one) in the area where the power drops out on the other side (top of drawing) and thus that section of track on around to the crossover won't get power from your feeder over in the bottom left.

 

Check all the unijoiners in the area. Sometimes its just a loose one and once and a whole the metal joiner inside gets pushed out.

 

Good luck

 

Jeff

That was the problem. I switched a 62mm track and the unjioiner were missing the metal part. Thanks for all the help guys!!!

[cteno4]

Sascha,

 

Dontcha love it when it's that simple of a fix! Glad it worked for you!

 

Number one first tech support question is it plugged in, number two is it turned on! I do gobs of support like this ad hoc for clients on exhibit stuff and their own tech gear and usually 50-60% of the time those two questions solve it! I find myself skipping it at times on my own stuff though to my later frustration...

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[cteno4]

Yakumo381,

 

Yes Murphy's law of track design and maintainance -- worst track problems will occur where the track is most inaccessible!

 

The tomix cleaner is good stuff. It does have a mix of some stronger organic solvents in there, one of which my nose picks up is xylene (both chemistry and fabrication background has put just about every organic solvent up my nose at one point or atother) which is out of favor for use these days here in the states. It also uses that scent that some urinal cakes do to cover up smell (para-dichlorobenzine, not in favor much anymore either) so I do find it funny to use whenever someone brings it to the club layout because of this!

 

Plain old 70% isopropanol works fine as well and is cheap and pretty orderless and safe. It does appear to maybe pick up a little of the paint off the ties if you use your finger on a cloth and really push your finger down into the center of the track, but that could also be mostly lubricant from the open gears on trucks. Most to the track on the jrm club layout has been scrubbed with isopropanol for over 10 years not and I don't notice any sign of the tie centers' paint getting worn off. Even if it did a tad it would be more prototypical than totally uniform tie coloration. You can avoid this by rubber banding your cleaning cloth to the end of a stick. you can get fancy with the woodland scenic wand or just taking a piece of 0.75" x 0.75" stock and rounding the end into a 180 arc and rubber banding on a couple of thicknesses of old heavy tee shirt cloth or flannel sheet.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[Sascha]

I was glad that it was so easy. I hate sending stuff back. I use Q-Tips and isopropanol to clean my tracks, is that ok or should I get a more fancy design to clean them?

[cteno4]

Sascha,

 

really since i was a kid (too many decades ago) ive just used a rag and isopropanol and the old human index digit! really is a wonderfully versatile tool and very inexpensive! isopropanol is pretty tame around track plastics and dries very quickly and pretty non toxic. faster to use your finger than a qtip im sure.

 

ive used sticks with rags rubber banded to them mainly to get in areas harder to get to than with the finger. simple trick of taking the 3/4" stock and rounding it in one direction on the end to a 180 degree arc helps a bit in the odd spots. but again 98% of the time the finger gives the best feedback and takes 2 sec to reposition the rag to a new clean spot and rewet and go again. ive use the woodland scenics wand and while its cool i found it awkward to use and you have to be careful around points not to snag a blade. again with the finger you can get pretty fine scale around a point and any really tight cleaning the qtip works grand. not worth the $30-40 for the woodland scenic wand unless you just love those as seen only on tv!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Sascha]

Thanks for all the help and info.  :)

[cteno4]

Sascha,

 

There is the other option of track cleaning cars and these are gadgets that do work well if you use them consistently. Several threads here on the forum about them. The ones with the big cleaning roller wheels tend to be the best to clean the muck off the track. The tomix cleaner car can work great as a power buffer (I would not recommend using the abrasive heads) and is great as a vacuum car to suck up all the dust, puzz, and small buts of schmutz that collects rather quickly on track and can get sucked into motor car trucks easily.

 

These gadgets cost some $$, but in the long haul are worth it on a layout. My cleaning train is a tomix in vacuum mode, a heki tank car that spreads cleaner on the track with a felt pad (isopropanol), a centerline roller cleaner (these are heavy and good cleaners and can get them cheap on ebay if you lurk), and then a tomix in buffing mode with the soft pad.

 

I don't use this on the club layout as its a pain to take to shows and set up and we can usually do it by the fingers really fast.

 

The cool part about having a cleaning train is you can use red wine. Pour yourself a nice glass of red wine, start the cleaning train going and sit back and relax with your glass or red wine!

 

Jeff

[Sascha]

I did find the Tomix, and a centerline roller cleaner, but couldn't find the heki tank car. Any link please?

[cteno4]

Sasha,

 

The heki is pretty old, but i see them pop up in ebay now and then for $10-20.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HERKAT-SHELL-FUEL-TANKER-TRACK-CLEANING-CAR-N-SCALE-VINTAGE-WEST-GERMANY-/351169703896?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item51c3586fd8

 

The tomix car has a small resivior that you can also use just in front of its buffer.

 

I've never been a fan of the Masonite block cleaners or the ebrasive erasers. I do believe thes leave larger scratches in the rail head that is easier for muck to build up on, but no ral proof this is true or false as is a thing of constant debate in the model train world!

 

Cleaning trains are fun but they can be persnickety on some layouts, but that being said one of our club members has a huge unitrack basement layout with the track not nailed down at all and it's pretty dirty on the layout (no drop ceiling so all the floor board smith keeps raining down along with exposed stone walls) and he uses a centerline with goo gone or orange oil (more aggressive cleaners than isopropanol and I worry may leave a little residue) with great results and it chugs right along his very loose track! Reason I wnt for the centerline. Their wipes are just slices of handiwipes. I like how it's a bit uneven and thus moves around a bit to get more than just the rail head. Aztec is their competitor with a crape rubber roller wheels usually inside a car. There are folks on the forum that love the Aztec as well.

 

Just cleaning with a rag is super cheap and easy. A $10 micro vacuum attachment for your regular vacuum hose is super for getting the track sucked clean as well as buildings dusted. Just put a small piece of nylon stocking material over the larger vacuum hose to catch any train bit you might accidentally suck up so it doesn't go into the vacuum bag!

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[Sascha]

Thanks a lot  Jeff. Bought it. Love that its from Germany (grew up in Berlin).

What do you think about this? A wheel cleaner.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tomix-6414-Track-with-Wheel-Cleaning-Device-F-N-scale-/361077018440?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item5411de0f48

Edited October 29, 2014 by Sascha

[cteno4]

Sasha,

 

I've never used one of these mechanical wheel cleaners. There are a number of these out there. I think a few folks have commented on these in the past on the forum.

 

I do the simple put a paper towel over the track and soak it in isopropanol and then just use the old digits to run the car back and forth on the track on top of the paper towel. Works great. You can do the same with locos by letting one truck sitting on the rails to get power and the inter on the soaked paper towels. But you need to be gentle with the traction tires. I usually do this when in a pinch at shows.

 

At home I flip the loco and have a little block of wood with some copper strips attached to a power supply. Strips are spaced to touch both wheels and powe the engine. Then while the wheels are spinning I can use Qtips and dental applicators soaked in isopropanol to clean the wheels well and even the traction tires lightly.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[Sascha]

Thanks again Jeff,looking forward to read your answers on my future questions.I really appreciate it.

[katoftw]

I dont understand how only 1 faulty unijoiner can cause this issue.  The track was layed out in a loop, so with1 problem unijoiner, the power still should come from the other direction.

[kvp]

I dont understand how only 1 faulty unijoiner can cause this issue.  The track was layed out in a loop, so with1 problem unijoiner, the power still should come from the other direction.

The double crossover turnout is isolated on the inside rails in the through direction and fully isolated in the crossing direction. Adding it to any track essentially cuts the inside rails. Power is not routed through like in a Tomix turnout, but this makes it easier to add to a double loop, two controller setup. Generally the assumption is that power feeders are added to all 4 sides or for simple loops, power will come around the other side. A common DCC modification for them is to add bypass wires that connect the 4 ends together.

[katoftw]

Yes but there is a power feed on the outer loop, so the crossover isolating is irrelevant.  Power should have been coming around the other side if only 1 unijoiner was faulty, albiet much lower voltage due to resistence from track and many joiners.

 

If there was 2 faulty joiners, then yeah this makes sense, but 1?

Edited October 29, 2014 by katoftw

[cteno4]

No only a single faulty unjoiner on the inside rail of the outer track up where the circle is up at the top would isolate the inside rail of the outer track from the power feed from around from the left (clockwise front the power feed) and the crossover isolates the inner rail so nothing coming from the double crossover to the top section of track (counterclockwise from the double crossover). On the outside rail it would not be a problem with a bad unijoier as it would be fed on the coninous outside rail of the double crossover.

 

That's the thing you have to make sure all 4 tracks of a double crossover is fed with power on those inner rails where they are isolated at the crossover. The outside rails of course are continuous so can feed from one side to the other even if there is a break in a loop between them.

 

Jeff

Edited October 30, 2014 by cteno4

[katoftw]

OK yes that makes sense.  Thanks.

 

I think you might have solved a minor issue I was having.  I have a crossover, and on 1 side of the all track run about 20% slower than the other side.  The good side is about 100cm from the power feed.  The slower side is about 3 meters from the power feed.  As you get closer to the power feed on the slower side, the train does speed up again.  I will investigate the inner unijoiner on the slower side.

Edited October 30, 2014 by katoftw