British N-gauge prices - ouch.

[railsquid]

I just ordered a steam locomotive and two coaches (replicating an OO gauge set I had in my younger days) from a British supplier to pick up when I visit later this month, and even though the locomotive was on special offer the order comes to 20,000 yen at current exchange rates :o

 

I guess I'm lucky to be living in Japan from an obtaining-affordable-stuff point of view.

 

Actually I'll be passing through London and thought I'd take the opportunity to check out the capital's model shops - except it turns out there are hardly any left there.

[katoftw]

Yes Japanese trains are by far the cheapest of any market.

 

For around 10,000JPY/100USD you can get a single USA loco like a ES44AC.  But for the same money you get a 3 car commuter set of Japanese background.

 

Go into Euro stuff, and you'll be paying the big bucks.

[railsquid]

Well, big Euros... That's why while I was living in Germany I was never really tempted. I'd occasionally gaze longingly at display cases but couldn't justify spending almost half-a-month's rent on a single train. Fortunately there's only one or two German units I really want, and they're probably out of production so I don't hold out much hope. I'll probably pick up some scenic stuff while I'm there.

[bikkuri bahn]

I have similar feelings when I go to a hobby shop here in Japan, and see the affordable N scale items, especially the Green Max kits of more obscure rolling stock, and wish such things existed in HO- even at twice, heck, even 3x the price it would be attractive.

Edited October 7, 2014 by bikkuri bahn

[railsquid]

The HO stuff here is indeed in a totally other world, pricewise. I wandered innocently into a branch of Katsumi the other week, thinking it was just another model railway shop, but it turned out to be HO only and after taking a brief look I wandered straight out, lest the prices cause unwanted palpitations.

 

Being British, I started off with OO (I still have most of the stock), though looking for the prices of that it's not far off the equivalent N prices (though I suspect the range is somewhat broader than British N). However even if I had unlimited space I think I'd stick with N because it's much more manageable.

[kvp]

British N is just beginning to take up momentum, thanks to american, german and japanese manufacturers getting in. Some of them bought old british brands, while for example Kato is selling under its own name. Actually i do collect british N too, but only 3rd rail electrics in BR blue and running from London Victoria station. This limits my spending a little.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

 Actually i do collect british N too, but only 3rd rail electrics in BR blue and running from London Victoria station. This limits my spending a little.

 

I'd say that limits your spending a lot! You basically have the Bachmann 4 CEP, the Farish 33 (and forthcoming Dapol version) and Dapol 73 to choose from. 

[kvp]

Also mk1 and mk2 coaches (boat trains and gatwick airport), and the arnold 5bel. I plan to kitbash a few suburban coaches into a 4epb and there is an mlv kit i've seen.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

Ah yes, I forgot about the Brighton Belle...as you probably are aware this ran until very early in the blue era - up until 1972. The Gatwick Express - class 73, mark 2 and DVT (converted EPB driving trailer) did not start running until 1983 or thereabouts. Prior to that set up, Gatwick trains were formed of modified 4-VEP sets. Obviously you can play fast and loose with the timescales. 

 

There are kits available for the class 71 electric locomotive - the slab-fronted loco most famous for its use on the Golden Arrow and Orient Express - yes, Wagon Lits were seen at Victoria on the Night Ferry train.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Ferry

 

You may well be aware of this lot... If not, they are well worth taking a look at for possible EMU stuff...

 

http://www.electrarailwaygraphics.co.uk/

 

Are you planning a model of Victoria and/or an area near by?

[Claude_Dreyfus]

 

Actually I'll be passing through London and thought I'd take the opportunity to check out the capital's model shops - except it turns out there are hardly any left there.

 

Sadly there are barely any model shops in London in the immediate area. Not sure when you are in London, if you are staying there or visiting elsewhere in the UK, or how long you would be there, but you may consider an exhibition in the London area...

[Fenway Park]

The British N gauge manufacturers are Graham Farish part of Bachmann (Chinese owned) Dapol (British owned) and DJM models again British owned but all three are made in China. 

 

Hornby produce the Brighton Belle under the Arnold banner but this is their only British N gauge to date.

 

Lima and Minitrix have disappeared. 

 

Prices are creeping higher and the weak Yen does not help if you are buying British N 

[railsquid]

Sadly there are barely any model shops in London in the immediate area. Not sure when you are in London, if you are staying there or visiting elsewhere in the UK, or how long you would be there, but you may consider an exhibition in the London area...

 

Just passing through central London, staying a night (note to self: book hotel). I've been told about "Wheels of Steel" and will certainly be paying a visit there.

[railsquid]

Prices are creeping higher and the weak Yen does not help if you are buying British N 

 

Fortunately for my financial sanity, this will be a one-off "grab a bunch of whatever's available" [*] raid using some funds I still have in the UK. It'll be interesting to see how well the "British" stuff is made; I keep hearing how the locomotives need to be run in.

 

[*] I think it's the ghost of teenage years past urging me to complete the list of stuff I always wanted but never could afford. Mainly BR blue diesels.

[kvp]

The Gatwick Express - class 73, mark 2 and DVT (converted EPB driving trailer) did not start running until 1983 or thereabouts. 

 

The gatwick express ran fully in BR blue for a very short time only and afaik with a glv. I plan to build that train some day. Until that i will probably use a standard mk2 dvt. (and might need another class 73, since now it's assigned to my mk1-s or a class 33 could get them when i get one)

 

Are you planning a model of Victoria and/or an area near by?

 

Only the last 3 tracks and the wall behind them as a modular shelf layout, with heavy compression and a 4 coaches + engine limit. It's a bit far on my todo list tough. Actually i have the track plans for the carriage sidings and the bridge too, including the old station building on Grosvenor road. The configuration is around 1980, during the last days of local tower operaion. But for trains, anything between the start of the BR blue era and the beginning of the sectorisation is ok. What i can't really find is a good timetable with consist setups from the 80ies. I did find this info about the Brighton Belles, maybe because they are famous.

 

 

Wagon Lits were seen at Victoria on the Night Ferry train.

 

 

Most photos i've seen have a class 73 or 33 on the front. Finding 1:148 ferry cars will be a bit hard tough (not to mention the french baggage coach) and they are not really BR blue either. But they would look really nice next to the belle. Considering my plan has only 3 station tracks and 1 storage siding, the number of trains in the station will be somewhat limited. I just don't really know when can i realise this plan. Maybe after i've built my modular japanese home layout. (two modules are assembled, two to go)

[Claude_Dreyfus]

Wheels of Steel is not somewhere I am familiar with...interesting as I work in London and spend a fair amount of time there. I have found some information on them here...

 

http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/shops/141-WheelsOfSteel

 

Sadly the second-hand market is quite high at the moment, so a fairly decent modern locomotive model (Bachmann 47 for example) will set you back £60 or so.

[railsquid]

Thanks. I've been collating this info on a thread over on another site .

[westfalen]

Wheels of Steel is the only model train shop I was able to find when I spent a few days in London in 2010, although like my recent visits to Japan I find the real trains more interesting than spending a day of my time seeking out hobby shops that may or may not have anything I'm interested in.  Wheels of Steel seemed mainly to have second hand stuff in N scale when I was there, though that's not to say they might not have that item you've been after for the last twenty years.

[railsquid]

Well at this point in my "modelling career" (hah) any shop I go into outside of Japan selling N-gauge stuff will be full of things I don't have, so I'm bound to come out with something :). Whereas modern British trains don't really interest me (I might check out the new under/overground extensions, but that's all I'll have time for anway). I will be giving the Berlin rail network a thorough review to see how well it's been doing without me :)

[railsquid]

Well the Dapol Class 58 I now have is a noisy little thing. OK, it is a heavy freight diesel, but it's way louder than my Japanese locomotives. That is apparently normal for that product, and it is geared for heavy loads; it handled a longish set of freight wagons on my incline with nary a complaint apart from sounding like a diesel. OTOH the Tomix EF60 I bought yesterday was all like "meh, what gradient, let me just purr up this slight rise" and was less than half the price and doesn't need oiling or running in. Hmm. Makes me wonder if there's a substantial quality gap between British and Japanese models.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

Yes, the 58 is quite noisy, but has some power for a UK model. Here is my RF Coal liveried example playing with a full rake of Farish HAA coal hoppers on an early incarnation of Yamanouchi Oshika.

 

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SB2CBSm9i7E

 

That gradient was 1/40, with a reverse curve.

 

Whilst a decent model, personally I prefer the Farish 60...which to me is the best UK model out there. Sadly though, for British modellers, not a patch on Japanese stuff.

[railsquid]

Thanks, I saw that video on the "other" (British) site.

 

In general any BR diesels on my wishlist will be ones which ran in BR blue, as my affinity with British railways faded rapidly at the end of the 80's, and not having lived there for the better part of 25 years, it's all a bit strange to me (actually I had to look the 60 up because I didn't remember what it looked like). The 58 is an exception to the blue rule, but was certainly running while I was still crossing off numbers in Ian Allen books and I had a cab ride in once.

 

Anyway, plans for my ficticious British Railways Village are advancing and no doubt the roster will expand a bit in the next couple of weeks.

[railsquid]

I gave the 58 a quick spin around the track earlier to take my mind off a work problem, and afterwards Mrs. Squid enquired as to why I had been drilling a hole  :confused3:

[railsquid]

Meh... One day I will win some silly figure on the lottery (note to self: need to buy tickets first) and will buy up one of the British manufacturers and force them into a joint venture with a Japanese company to introduce Japanese motor technology.

 

Case in point: I picked up a Dapol 4-car HST set - one power car with motor, two coaches and a dummy power car. For the princely sum of (at current exchange rates) approx 27,000 yen (!, though I was paying in pounds with some money squirreled away in a rainy day account). For that money, I get something which does actually look nice, but it needs "running in" for an hour; the dummy power car jumps off the track at every opportunity (apparently a known issue); and it struggles up my gradient, which is admittedly not the nicest of gradients. And - this is so sad it's almost funny - I replaced the Dapol power car with my Squid DMU (which was 2nd hand and sounds a bit like it needs maintenance) and it hauled the unit up the gradient with barely a groan.

 

Incredibly, the dummy power car has the same bogies as the power car (complete with gears on the axles, presumably for the power pickups for the lights) and runs very stiffly; apparently this is a known issue which can be fixed by filing bits off the chassis and adding some weight.

 

Truly I am spoiled by Japanese trains...

[kvp]

The correct fix for the dummy is to get a spare motor frame and motorise it. That would also handle the gradient problem. The same fix would be good for the 4cep and the 5bel too. On the other hand, yes, British mechanics and motors are very crude compared to almost anything from Japan made in the last 30 years. Now if someone takes a look at German coach pickup strips and if you compare it to Japanese axle tip pickups, you will notice that the German solution is from the early 70-ies and has way too high rolling resistance and it's still in use on new models. You could buy 3rd party axle tip pickups for H0 and TT cars in the 80ies and they are still needed, even for the newest N and Z trains. (except some asian designed ones, like the Maerklin V100 in Z, which was designed and made by a Hong Kong firm with Japanese N standards in mind) Seems like many european manufacturers are just using the same solutions that they were using when they started business. (a certain TT manufacturer even uses the old tooling, so my first train set more than 3 decades ago is still in production)

[railsquid]

Berliner TT-Bahnen, now Tillig?

 

Going to the trouble and expense of motorizing the other power car is way down on the list of my priorities at the moment (especially as my experience with working with N-gauge motors etc. is currently zilch). The fix will be to re-design the layout so that my British locos (of which more than half can't cope with the gradient at all and with one exception the others are not really happy with it) will be based in the level area; any serious gradients will be Japanese-only (though once I have DCC no doubt I can set some kind of banking arrangement up ;) ).

 

One thing I do notice with the British locos is that they don't have traction tyres, which presumably doesn't help...