What distinguishes a Japanese layout?

[cteno4]

As others have stated I think its the density of that ordered chaos and all the myriad of small detail bits that can be so unique that says Japan to me. That and having rail an arms length from just about anything you can imagine and not blink an eye at.

 

Jeff

[ozman2009]

Perhaps to illustrate the point being well made here that the environment is absolutely fundamental to building the impression, here's a picture of a Japanese consist on my layout (that is Australian):

 

 

I have deliberately chosen a picture with relatively little scenery and yet, this doesn't look like Japan at all. Every detail counts.

 

Cheers, Andrew

 

I recognise the freight wagons as being Japanese, but did the JNR have crocodiles too?

[railsquid]

Looks like an EB10.

[marknewton]

Andrew's loco is a Tenshodo model of a Toshiba 40-ton steeplecab electric. JNR had them, so did many of the private railways. They were a standard catalogue design. There were similar designs from other Japanese builders, as well as the original imports built by Baldwin for the JGR and Chichibu Railways.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[marknewton]

Looks like an EB10.

 

Not an EB10, but an ED37. They were later reclassified as ED29.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[ozman2009]

Thanks gents. Looking more closely at the photo I can see that it wasn't articulated. Nice loco, though.

Edited September 18, 2014 by ozman2009

[marknewton]

They're very nice models. I have two, one in Keisei livery, the other is currently undecorated.

 

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

[ozman2009]

Thanks for the photo. Is this N scale?

[railsquid]

Here's a photo of an N-gauge Tenshodo model

[Sean]

Oooh, I don't think the way space is used in Japanese cities could be described as "efficient". The sheer number of small plots combined with the requirement to maintain a minimum (albeit minimal) distance to neighbouring buildings leads to very inefficient use of land and wasted internal space - you end up with a lot of tall, narrow buildings with a greater-than-ideal proportion of the internal space taken up by stairwells, elevators etc. What you certainly don't see compared to cities in most other countries is comparatively large swathes of land lying around unused - OTOH abandoned buildings, especially houses are surprisingly common and an increasing problem. 

 

But yes, cramming stuff in is prototypical and I am looking forward to doing that :)

 

That is a good point actually.  I suppose by "efficient" I really just meant "crowded", which obviously isn't the same thing.  Mind you, those crowded buildings make for a lot more charming (albeit often gaudy or otherwise unattractive) street scenery than larger buildings would.

 

The abandoned house problem is of interest to me, though it mostly applies to smaller cities or the countryside.  I have been considering buying a house at some point and am always interested in hearing about the policies some municipalities pursue in which they more or less give old houses away for "free" the only catch being that you have to live in them (and invest in making them habitable again).  But that is getting off topic.

 

One thing that I note with my own layout is that I am reluctant to make it true to contemporary Japan and seem to be basing it more on Japan in the 1980s, before the rise of the "shuttered dori" problem and urban blight in general. 

[Ken Ford]

When I look at photos and videos I am always struck by how zoning is done much differently compared to the US.  A house is next to a factory is next to a small urban farm is next to a store is next to a golf driving range...

[railsquid]

When I look at photos and videos I am always struck by how zoning is done much differently compared to the US.  A house is next to a factory is next to a small urban farm is next to a store is next to a golf driving range...

 

There is no zoning per-se. Or at least none I'm aware of. OTOH there are lots of odd restrictions on height and what proportion of a block you can build on, which helps contribute to the dense higgledy-piggeldyness.

 

When we were looking for a house, we were sent material for a new development which looked quite attractive from a design/price/location point of view. Before pursuing it any further I cycled over to have a look, and lo and behold the living room window opened out onto a small but decently sized garden (in Tokyo terms) overlooked by a 3-storey factory with some sort of industrial-scale ventilator poised to vent into the garden.

 

Luckily we found somewhere next to a small urban farm (though the farmer does like to burn stuff every now and again which is kind of annoying).

[Ken Ford]

I'm definitely going to be asking for assistance in planning the structures on my little Randen loop layout - there's no way I could come up with something plausible on my own!

[railsquid]

For Randen you can be a bit more picturesque I think (it's been a while since I've been there), the Tomytec range has a lot of older-style buildings which would suit. Happy to assist with suggestions etc. and I can take photos of stuff if anyone wants and it's not too far out of my way. Also Google Street View is your friend.

[Sean]

There actually is a rather intricate set of zoning rules in Japan, but they don't prevent that sort of stuff from happening (or prevented, most of those odd co-locations pre-date the current rules which were introduced in the 1960s.  Generally it is older neighborhoods that have that random assortment of land uses while newer ones tend to be a bit more uniform.  Since almost all neighborhoods in cities are older, however, the cities pretty much all look random).

 

It is one of the things that makes setting up a layout easy - you don't have to worry so much about where you put buildings. With my own I've noticed that so long as I follow the basic principle of packing them all very close together without regard to anything else, they will look authentic no matter how illogical they are arranged.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Sean

[marknewton]

Thanks for the photo. Is this N scale?

 

No, it's 1/80th scale. There's a few of us here who model in the larger scale.  :)

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[marknewton]

Here's a photo of an N-gauge Tenshodo model

 

That's the 1/80th scale model. I don't think Tenshodo produced one in N scale.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[railsquid]

Doh, brain evidently wasn't engaged when I checked that page, the scale is written right there.

[marknewton]

No worries - we've all had days like that!  :)

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[HantuBlauLOL]

What distinguishes a Japanese layout?

 

Multiple Units everywhere.

[ozman2009]

Thanks for the response, however doesn't that describe many railways? It's certainly true of the UK, Germany, other European lines and even here in NSW (Australia). I think I'm right in saying that there is only one loco hauled passenger train in NSW, and that's the Indian Pacific.

[marknewton]

There's two. The IP and this:

 

http://www.3801limited.com.au/cockatoo.htm

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[ozman2009]

There's two. The IP and this:

 

http://www.3801limited.com.au/cockatoo.htm

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

 

Thanks Mark, I didn't know about that one. I was mainly thinking about trains in regular revenue service.

[HantuBlauLOL]

Thanks for the response, however doesn't that describe many railways? It's certainly true of the UK, Germany, other European lines and even here in NSW (Australia). I think I'm right in saying that there is only one loco hauled passenger train in NSW, and that's the Indian Pacific.

 

i thought only in Japan..

[kvp]

I would add that Germany has many loco hauled services, mostly double decker push pull commuter sets. East of Germany the loco hauled train is the norm for non high speed rail, with emu's slowly making progress replacing the old east German equipment. The problem is that in the Soviet block most equipment was built to last for as long as possible, since we didn't have a market economy. This translates to lots of old stuff running perfectly fine and modern operators are reluctant to replace something that is essentially free after so many years and don't need much maintenance.

 

The oldest revenue passenger equipment in use in Hungary was made in 1954 and most push pull commuter trains are actually slam door steam stock upgraded to electric and diesel operation. (the doors open invards since the 19th century tough, so the trains can run with doors left open without getting them ripped off by lineside equipment) The other cars are also interesting, there's some 3rd hand TEE stock from the 60-ies and other interesting stuff. The locomotives are less varied, the main electric locomotive is still the V43 (looks and works like an ed75 painted blue). There are 3 series and the first run was around 400, so there are still many of them, even from the first series. High speed and international services get the newer taurus and traxx locomotives, but sometimes you can still see slow trains (=long distance all stops) run with old saddlecab electrics. Emu's are rare and used on higher profile services (frequented by tourists) and even those are not true emus, but mostly Stadler articulated railcars. An interesting link about an old comfort coach still running as a normal first class, but with the tv-s and coin operated payphone removed, the food service discontinued and nobody rotates the seats to face the right direction anymore: http://hamster.blog.hu/2014/09/21/keleti_kenyelem_nyugati_palyaudvarra_megy_mav_komfort_kocsi (hungarian text, but the pictures and video could be interesting)