Kato E7 -10-1221 DCC Friendly??? Sighhhh

[Spaceman Spiff]

G'day

 

You buy strictly quality equipment to avoid frustration.

 

You get all excited about a new Kato DCC friendly model.

 

You wait forever for Kato to actually release it.

 

You finally get it delivered.

 

You then start installing the DCC friendly decoder.

 

You then after awhile start swearing at Kato and want to throw the DCC friendly unit at a wall.

 

You wish you would bought the Tomix version.

 

You wonder how Kato (Who in my opinion is the world leader in N Scale) can screw up a DCC friendly model. Do I seriously need to remove trucks with driveshafts Kato does have European models that accept NEM 651's. What a crappy way of doing things in the E7. A fellow club member has an E5 and it looks to be the same crappy decoder set up. Enough ranting for now.

 

 

Has anyone had success installing the EM 13 decoder to Kato E7? I tried the shimmy trick as mentioned by Capt. O in a previous thread. I tried adding a bit of solder to decoder contact points. The motor contacts on this model are a real pain. No luck. I did manage to get a short and make smoke though.

 

I have another one coming now. Sadly this one will be received with less enthusiasm. I'm thinking I may just hard wire a DZ135 into the new one. Corresponding with David at LocoHobby (excellent place to buy from), he mentions that Kato is hinting the motor may not be DCC friendly Lol

 

 

So has anyone had luck getting the E7 to work with the EM13 decoder?

 

 

Spiff

[Martijn Meerts]

My E7 is the Tomix model, but I do have the Kato E5, and yes, you do have to remove the bogies and drive shafts to actually be able to plug in the Kato decoder. Not that I actually tried to install it, I tend to go with the hardwiring option for all trains (including those with NEM651 plugs, because they're not very reliable either)

 

I do also have issues with fitting the cab car decoders into the Kato 151 series train, they fit, but they just don't work. The same decoders work perfectly fine in the E5 and E6 though, but only after almost having the use a hammer to get the decoders in their slots.

 

Personally, I'm not really impressed with Kato's DCC friendly on their Japanese models, but there are other on the forum who have no issues with them.

[Melandir]

Hi spiff,

I did the install in the E7, I have also other kato dcc friendly trains, but this is by far the worst,

But for every kato dcc friendly train you have to remove the truck and driveshaft, the worst in the E7 is that it looks to have less space than the others trains

[NJHA]

Thank you for the report on kato decoders and kato dcc friendly units. 

I am considering on setting up decoders on my models, so this information is valuable.

 

By the way, is digitrax dz123 any good? or should i aim for a more recent decoder (gen 6 decoder, like the dz126)

Edited September 15, 2014 by NJHA

[Spaceman Spiff]

G'day,

 

It's no big deal popping off the trucks but it really shouldn't be necessary. They could have built a board that accepts the NEM651's or the Next18's that some of the European manufacturers are using. I guess I'm just frustrated that they came out with their "DCC friendly" stuff and it doesn't work. Or atleast it didn't work for me. Any one have any luck with the E7 DCC?

 

 

Spiff

[keitaro]

I looked at one and it looks crazy tight.

 

i can only recommend self wiring this one and it has no insulation either?

 

so what happens if the contact touch the chassis like all the bits on the decoder do? a blown decoder and motor?

 

 

 

 

btw did you test the train on dc before decoder.

 

There is a that slight chance it was the decoder or motor that was faulty already ...

[kvp]

 

so what happens if the contact touch the chassis like all the bits on the decoder do? a blown decoder and motor?

You can't really damage the motor with a short, only if you leave it that way for more than a few seconds. The decoder on the other hand will be destoryed. (signs: completly dead, just the lights work or works in one direction only)

 

On the other hand, Kato's dcc friendly trains are meant to be used with Kato decoders. There are real dcc ready Kato trains and usually they come with a 6 pin decoder socket. If a train doesn't have a Kato or a NEM socket, then it's not dcc friendly at all. Personally when there is a bit of space, i would wire in a 6 pin socket, test it with a continuity tester and a then with dummy plug in analog and if it works, then add a tested 6 pin decoder. This way any miswiring could be detected before adding the decoder. Also, the decoder must be isolated from any metal surface around it.

[inobu]

Spiff,

 

It looks like Dr Yellow 923 has the same motor car chassis and I see what you mean. I just completely took the motor car apart and I can say that the EM decoder is the best solution. To clarify the thought I have never used

an EM decoder but your post has convinced me other wise.

 

There are too many other problems that you can create trying to install a wired decoder. This motor is suspended from chassis by 4 plastic clips just barely .5 mm thick. If you break or tweak those clips the motor will no longer

be suspended from the chassis and drag on the floor of the car. At that point the ordeal starts trying to locate the motor mount or buying a new motor car.  I would not recommend going into the motor car chassis.

 

Smoking Issue

I thinking the decoder may have been installed upside down and that is why it smoked. There is a DCC side and a DC side. The board isolated the DC motor pickups from the track pickups.
 

 

 

I'm going to try to pick up a EM13 and come up with an easier procedure to do the install. I did not bother to put my Dr Yellow back together because don't think it can handle a lot of disassemble cycles.

 

Inobu

[Spaceman Spiff]

Hi,

 

 

The installing of the EM 13 decoder isn't a big deal if it actually works as advertised. I just don't like removing trucks as they can lose their tight fitting fit if they have to be popped off several times to trouble shoot the decoder. Kato could have really come up with a better way of doing it.

 

keitaro, I test all new loco's before converting to DCC. I have a small DC test track that I use. You can run analogue on DCC using throttle id of 0 (zero).

 

Inobu, the decoder was installed properly. I'm thinking that the loose fitting motor tabs may have contacted the chassis metal. I researched Capt. O site as it's the first time I using this design.

 

 

Time to order new stuff from David ( LocoHobby)

 

 

Spiff

[inobu]

Spiff,

 

I went through the motions of re assembling the motor car and found that the pick up can be slightly twisted. This is caused by the tab on the bogie where the pick up slides into. If the 

pickup does not enter the bogie flat it will twist the pick up slightly. This twist will cause the pickup to touch the chassis.

 

Only on close inspection will you see the twist.

 

This is not a drop in install.

 

Having the DCC access door on these units is like having a condom made out of Kleenex. The only thing it is going to do for you is get you in trouble.

 

Remove the bottom cover so you can see everything and insure that the decoder is installed in the proper position. Short cuts are just too risky on

these motor cars.

 

Inobu

Edited September 16, 2014 by inobu

[Spaceman Spiff]

Spiff,

 

 

Having the DCC access door on these units is like having a condom made out of Kleenex. The only thing it is going to do for you is get you in trouble.

 

 

Inobu

 

Comment of the year. Lol

 

On the E7 motor car, the complete bottom part pops out and you get complete access.

 

 

Spiff

[Spaceman Spiff]

Quick Update:

 

I received my replacement E7 and was successful this time in getting it run with the decoder. The motor contact tab needed to spread out abit wider to ensure proper contact. The tab I referring to is pictured in the red circle. If you spread it out abit it should be good to go. The also worked on a friend's E5.

 

 

Spiff

Edited September 29, 2014 by Spaceman Spiff

[E6系]

By the way, is digitrax dz123 any good? or should i aim for a more recent decoder (gen 6 decoder, like the dz126)

 

Hello Mr HJHA,

 

DZ123 is very reliable, but no BEMF.  For smooth operation across turnouts and constant speed on grade the gurus recommend a decoder with BEMF.  DZ126 has BEMF.

 

Personally, I don't mind my consist slowing down on grade.  But for $3 or $4 extra, why not go for DZ126?