Gear Lubricant question.

[Sascha]

I read a view topics about Gear lubricant, and I hear different stories all over. Some say you need to oil the gears every six month, other say you never have to oil Kato trains, and other say that the new Kato trains need oil because Kato doesn't oil them anymore. And I also read a view times that you should only use Kato oil on Kato trains. Is that true?I'm obviously pretty confused.

Help would be very appreciated.

[The Next Station Is...]

A good clean (removing tangled debris in the mechanism, gears and axles, and cleaning the electrical contacts) works wonders by itself. I haven't oiled my locos and they run fine.

[kvp]

Most new motors contain synthetic grease and they should be re greased after cleaning. Removing debris and cleaning the contacts is usually enough if you leave whatever lubricating material is used on the gears. So far i haven't seen a Japanese N scale loco with oil in it, just greases of various kinds. Usually the factory lubrication should last the length of the life of the motor if no exessive dust or debris intake happens. Too much disassembly and cleaning can also lead to grease loss.

 

On the other hand, i too would like to know which type of grease each manufacturer uses, so it would be possible to replace grease in old used trains with the right type. The problem is that mostly the old grease is too dirty and/or yellow/brown to leave as it is.

[The Next Station Is...]

Removing debris and cleaning the contacts is usually enough if you leave whatever lubricating material is used on the gears.

Top advice. I used a cocktail stick to just get the debris and leave the grease alone. I would be interested though in Kato's specific grease.

[E6系]

Hello Mr sascha,

 

I have never oiled an N scale motor.  Oil on motor = oil on track.

[Sascha]

Great. One thing less to worry about!!

Thanks a lot for the feedback.

[Martijn Meerts]

The motors Kato, Tomix, MicroAce etc. use these days aren't really serviceable, and when they break down really should be replaced completely. The only thing you could oil on the motors are the bearings, but that's not needed. For the gears, a tiny little bit of grease is more than enough.

 

I tend to only do oiling/greasing in 2 scenario's. When I'm installing a decoder and have the train pretty much in pieces already anyway, or when I'm building the train from a kit.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Martijn Meerts

[railsquid]

Thanks, this has been interesting for me too - my first N-gauge motive power acquisition is still only a few weeks ago. OTOH I've just acquired a Kato train second hand which is evidently 11 years old - no idea what it was doing all that time, but it's in very nice condition and seems to run fine. I also recently acquired another EMU power car from the "junk" box of a 2nd hand retailer here and that runs without any evident problems. (Ironically the only issue I've had so far was with a new locomotive from Kato, but it must have been a dud, as I sent it back and the replacement runs fine).

[cteno4]

I only lube when needed, this is when a car starts squealing or running rough. First thing I check is the trucks as this is the place that you can suck in smutz like hair, fuzz, dust, grit. Many times this can get picked out well with fine tweezers, but if bad it requires treating the truck apart and cleaning well and the re lubing with a light grease. I've found that just picking out puzz from trucks can pull out a lot of the lubricant as it seems to stick better to the puzz than the gears and housing.

 

Squealing many times has actually been the motor bearings being dry for me. Tiny (just some wet on the end of an oiling nib or a toothpick) amount of quality lightweight bearing oil usually stops the squealing. Sometimes it comes from the worm gear on top, but not usually.

 

I use to try to be systematic on this sort of repair, trying one thing at a time to figure out what went wrong, but that can mean a few tear downs to go thru. Now days when there is trouble I clean out as much as possible and relube and then everything is happy, after a while it becomes like cleaning a gun, pretty mechanical.

 

I've had very new trains to very old trains both run wonderfully for long periods or have issues quickly, so I've never see a real pattern to what trains eventually need some maintain ex like relubing.

 

Also always clean all the wiping contacts when ever I pull a truck eve if it looks clean just to be sure. Those micro dental applicators and some isopropanol work great on this.

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff

[railsquid]

Kind of related question - I've seen a few posts on another forum mentioning "running in" new motive power units (there are evidently even special "rolling roads") - is this necessary at all?

[kvp]

It depends on the manufacturer. Some of them test the new trains for an extended time before packaging, so they can be run out of the box, some of them just assemble them without testing and you have to run them in. This means you run them continously for some time with a middle power setting and in both directions. Originally it was meant to slowly grind down any inperfections on moving parts, but with today's mechanics, this isn't really required anymore. Just make sure, you don't run your new trains on maximum speed on the first runs and run them equally in both directions, but this should be the norm for normal operations too. Imho, Japanese trains from big manufacturers tend to be good right out of the box.

[brill27mcb]

I have only had the need to lightly oil the motor shaft bearings, as Jeff stated above, and only when the audibly "complain." If the unit occasionally goes into a "squeak mode" with slower speed at the same time, that is the motor bearings going dry. The motor shaft is the fastest-RPM part of the drive train, and with metal-on-metal bearings that is where problems happen first. You want to be sure to get no oil on the electrical commutator and carbon brushes of the motor. Non-metallic gears generally do not need lubrication, nor do gear and wheelset shafts that run in plastic bearing holes in the bogies.

 

Rich K.

[E6系]

Kind of related question - I've seen a few posts on another forum mentioning "running in" new motive power units (there are evidently even special "rolling roads") - is this necessary at all?

Hello Mr railsquid,

 

Here is my opinion on the subject: some models do run better after "some time" on the track but none of the Japanese manufacturers have needed to print any instructions to "run in" a model.  For this reason, I do not practice "run in". 

 

Everything wears out with usage and time.  So, if a consist is running rough I clean it and/or repair it.  If it is loud I make adjustments to drive shafts, etc.  If I can't fix it I leave it.  Doing nothing but running lap after lap around the track in the hope that it will magically become quiet is not proactive and not the way to care for model train. 

 

Be proactive in caring for your trains!

 

I have N-gauge rolling roads.  They are useful for testing new model or after reassembly of model.  I would only run model for 5 - 10 seconds in each direction on rolling roads.

[HantuBlauLOL]

i've never lubricated any of my trains yet, since 8 years ago..

 

well, i think i need to, my EF81's sound is bizzare.

[Sascha]

8 years? Wow. I didn't thought they last that long.

[HantuBlauLOL]

yup, my father gave me the EF81-300 back then in 2005..

 

oh wait, its 9 years.. 

 

so far only have replaced the bogies, i lost all the gears in the old one. and re-detailing the roof..

[Sascha]

Thats good news. So I'm saving money by not replacing trains every couple of years.Going to invest that for new Trains.

[cteno4]

Yeah it's not a lot of money needed for ongoing maintenance. Just a few basic tools, a good work light (those $10 ikea flex led desk lamps are ideal), some quality light bearing oil for motor bearings, and light grease for the gears and once and a while a few parts (usually a few dollars to max maybe $25 for a motor). There are threads in the tool shed forum with ideas for inexpensive or free tools and such useful for train maintenance. But this is usually spread out over a long time. When you take things apart use a piece of heavy solid dark cloth on the table under everything just in case a part drops, the cloth will keep it from bouncing away (and you spending hours on the floor with a flashlight picking up every but of schmutz looking for the part!) and make it visible. Best to work in a small tray or at least place disassembled parts in one so that they don't get lost. Some sort of magnifying arm/lamp is also a good investment in the long run as it can help make it much easier to see how things come apart, where the problem is, etc.

 

Biggest thing is time to do it. When you start to notice a problem that's usually the best time to act and just put the train aside for maintenance and do it as soon as possible so you remember the issue well (if not right then write yourself a note as to the issue and put it in the box, I've found this helpful later!)

 

Keeping things clean helps the most dust, carpet fuzz, hairs etc are the usual culprits in stuff getting sucked up into truck gears and mucking up the works. Those little micro vacuum hose attachment kits you can pop on your vacuum cleaner are handy to clean tracks and all around the layout. You can put a piece of nylon stocking or other fine mesh over the large hose end at the adapter to catch everything larger you suck up (so it doesn't go into the vacuum cleaner bag) in case you suck up something important by mistake. When I've left trains out a long time and they get dusty I just put the vacuum hose (always use the above pre filter idea) an inch away from the train and then go down it with the hose and a big, soft makeup brush and clean the train. Stirred up dust just gets sucked away. Same goes for scenery and buildings as they tend to attract dust a lot.

 

Also the tomix cleaner car has a good vacuum function that does a great job. Also just using a very very light (like 1 mil) plastic drop cloth over the layout when not in use for longer periods can help if you have dust problems or even one of those small room air cleaners can cut down a lot on dust.

 

Keeping the track clean is pretty easy if you stay on top of it. Lots of threads on the forum about it with ideas. Bit of Cotten tee shirts and isopropanol on it and your finger is the simplest. You can also rubber band the clot to the end of a thin stick like 1" wide to get to harder to reach areas. Lots of cleaning car options as well. If you can keep ahead on the track cleaning its a lot easier. Once it gets dirty enough to effect running of trains then you also have the dirt on the wheels to deal with an that dirtying the track as well!

 

Like the real railroads good proactive maintenance = good running! lousy maintenance = bad running!

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

Edited September 22, 2014 by cteno4

[Sascha]

I definitely will check out the Tool section and follow your tips.Thanks!!

[inobu]

Oil/lubricant is needed to reduce friction. Friction generates heat. Heat induces wear.

 

Because n scale is so small and technology allows for the development of precision parts friction or surface contact is minimal on each component reducing friction which reduces the need for lubricants.

 

Notice as you increase in gauge HO, OO G the need for lubrication increases as the surface contact area increases.

 

Longview

 

The key to longevity of any component is avoiding the components deterioration threshold. When you enter into this area for prolong periods the breakdown process starts. The squeaking, heat build up, component expansion and eventually component failure.

 

N scale is in the sweet spot of operation. The energy to work ratio is on the upper scale of efficiency allowing for the energy to be converted to work with minimal heat dispersion. Low friction high work efficiency.

 

Long version of a simple answer of not to worry

 

Inobu

[Sascha]

Makes perfect sense. Thanks!!