Japanese steam traction - not so popular?

[railsquid]

Is it me, or are Japanese steam locomotives not all that popular as models? I've been looking at a lot of Japanese modelling-related sites, layouts and shops in the past couple of weeks and steam locomotives don't seem to feature much at all. Even my wife, who knows nothing about trains, said they'd be kind of boring. And thinking about it, I've never really said to myself "wow, Japanese steam locomotive, must have". They do seem to all look pretty much the same (black with varying numbers of wheels). And it's not that I have anything against steam locomotives - if I suddenly won some kind of lottery I'd be ordering a whole variety of British ones and a big room to run them in.

[kvp]

Japanese steam locomotives as excursion trains are very popular even today. But as models they are not really usable with modern trains. Japan switched to multiple units very early compared to Europe or even the US, so there are almost no people who grew up with steam traction. Also, the post ww2 era (1945-1960) is not a big favourite. Most people who build Japanese layouts are building either JNR 1960ies to 1987 or something more modern. Except in a few hidden corners of Japan most lines were switched to either electric or diesel traction by 1970 and the classical steam locomotive was an exotic sight for special events and museums. Nowdays, only people who really like trains buy and run them. On the other hand, diesel and electric multiple units are really popular in Japan, while in the US, the most popular train type is the diesel freight with the classic steam locomotives taking the second place. In Europe, electic, diesel and steam coexisted for a long time, also locomotive hauled trains and multiple units were used together, so you see a more even mix.

[bikkuri bahn]

Most of the people buying the model trains have never experienced real working steam.  With the world-leading diversity of designs of emus and the dynamic railway scene here in Japan, modern railways just have more appeal to the consumer.  Also, there are just fewer prototype designs of steam locomotives, so they are not as attractive to makers, who like to churn out variations and different color schemes.  Personal opinion here, but I think n scale is too small for steam- can't appreciate the details and valve motion, etc and I dislike the oversize flanges, which is much more apparent on the high driving wheels of steam locomotives, versus diesels or emus.  Just much better in HO scale- which is where most steam and transition era modelers concentrate.

Edited August 20, 2014 by bikkuri bahn

[Martijn Meerts]

I probably have somewhere around 20 Japanese steam locomotives by now.. I've been considering doing a steam era layout, but I have too many non-steam era trains to make that work, so I'll end up running everything, and just build a nice steam locomotive depot.

 

I always did love steam locomotives though, and I'm still working on my 1/24 scale C62-2 kit, but that's going to take a while to finish :)

[cteno4]

I must admit to having about a dozen Japanese steam engines now. I was not into modeling steam, but they just do look so nice and having been around a fair amount of stream they are just sooooo cool I end up buying one when they come along at a good price. Bikkuri bahn is right that its hard to get all the wonderful articulation into n scale steam or see what is there well, but I still get a big smile from running my n stream! At least you can do an excursion train!

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[Densha]

I probably have somewhere around 20 Japanese steam locomotives by now.. I've been considering doing a steam era layout, but I have too many non-steam era trains to make that work, so I'll end up running everything, and just build a nice steam locomotive depot.

Solution: build a steam-era module in your layout.

[westfalen]

I'm actually concentrating my steam era modelling on JNR rather than my main interest, the Santa Fe, because I can get extremely good models of all the major Japanese steam classes (and a few of the odder ones) whereas the only Santa Fe steam loco available in N scale is the Bachmann 4-8-4 of rather dubious mechanical quality with over scale and under detailed body shell molding that hasn't been updated since the 70's.  The same holds true for most U.S. railroads, for any one you can get at the most one or two prototypically correct locos, and usually not typical workaday classes, compare this with the Japanese steam being turned out by Kato, Tomix and Micro-Ace and soon hopefully Tramway and I think most would agree Japanese steam era modellers have it pretty good.

 

I think the running gear is pretty good on the latest Kato and Tomix locos and they can be run slowly and more importantly smoothly enough to appreciate it.  The thing I wish you could recreate is the smell, coal smoke and steam that linger even after a steam train has passed.

[E6系]

Hello,

 

I am not a fan of Japanese steam.  I collect several themes of Japanese electric ... not even DMU!

 

Strangely, I have always been a fan of British steam.  British steam (and early diesel) has beautiful classical engineering lines.  I like especially LMS and LNER.  Princess Coronation, A4 Pacific, School Class, A1, Mallard, D40, D49, ... oh, so many.  Also, I am big fan of Deltic diesel.  Very interesting diesel motor design.  British steam is number 1.

[katoftw]

The thing I wish you could recreate is the smell, coal smoke and steam that linger even after a steam train has passed.

Light up a bucket of coal and place it in front of a aircon vent. Done.

 

If you want steam, boil the kettle.

[railsquid]

Interesting comments, thanks. Good idea with the excursion train, I will be sure to integrate one or two of those.

[E6系]

The thing I wish you could recreate is the smell, coal smoke and steam that linger even after a steam train has passed.

 

Hello Mr westfalen,

 

Perhaps it would sell well as an aftershave ...

 

Actually, I don't mind the smell of steam locomotive, especially when blowing white.  The smell can be choking when blowing black smoke.  If you need a "hit" just pay a visit to Umekoji Steam Museum, Kyoto.  They run live steam daily, and you can walk amongst the locomotives and get soot and grease on your hands.

[HantuBlauLOL]

the streamlined C53 and C55 looks really cool..

 

And overall Japanese steamers looks better than American steamers IMHO..

[westfalen]

Hello Mr westfalen,

 

Perhaps it would sell well as an aftershave ...

 

Actually, I don't mind the smell of steam locomotive, especially when blowing white.  The smell can be choking when blowing black smoke.  If you need a "hit" just pay a visit to Umekoji Steam Museum, Kyoto.  They run live steam daily, and you can walk amongst the locomotives and get soot and grease on your hands.

There's coal smoke and there's coal smoke, the good quality Blair Athol steaming coal used by Queensland Rail in their steamers seems to burn cleaner and is much easier on the nostrils than the coal used in New South Wales.  The first time I went on a steam train down there I thought "what are they burning?" because it smelled totally different.  I'm not sure where JR East or JR West get their coal but when I was on the Oigawa SL in 1990 the vice president of the railway was on the train and he told us they used a mixture of Australian and Vietnamese coal because the Vietnamese was cheaper.

 

I've been to Umekoji several times.  It's my idea of what a steam locomotive museum should be like, full of dirty, gritty, working locos not highly polished stuffed and mounted specimens.

[Sacto1985]

Japan switched to multiple units very early compared to Europe or even the US, so there are almost no people who grew up with steam traction. Also, the post ww2 era (1945-1960) is not a big favourite. Most people who build Japanese layouts are building either JNR 1960ies to 1987 or something more modern. 

 

Question: why was the 1945-1960 era of JNR not popular with railroad modelling fans in Japan? Was it because JNR rolling stock post-World War II was nothing to write home about until after 1958, when much more stylish (and modern) trainsets started to appear on Japanese rails such as the 151 Series EMU and the KiHa 80 DMU?

[bikkuri bahn]

The lack of "color" in pre-1960's rolling stock is likely a big reason, at least in terms of appealing merchandise.  Another theory is in general, railway modelers want to create their ideal miniature world, and frankly, for older modelers, life in Japan pre-1955 or so was not that great for the majority, with lots of privation, if not a lack of hope in the future. Younger modelers would be atracted to modern stock rather than the older stuff, as it is what they know, and frankly, the real thing now is in the golden age, in terms of diversity and complexity of operations. OTOH, the popularity of steam era and transition era models in the US market can be explained by the advanced age of American modelers, and the great diversity of both freight and passenger railways in N. America back in the fifties, colored by nostalgia of the "good old days" by the generally conservative model railroader demographic.

 

*It's interesting to compare the decline of American passenger railways with the post-war recovery and further rise of Japanese passenger railways- a somewhat simplistic but easy to pinpoint turning point would be 1957/1958- in the U.S. it was the end of coast to coast Pullman sleeping car service, including the withdrawal of big intercity carrier NYC from Pullman-run sleeping car service (in 1958), while in Japan 1957 saw the introduction of the revolutionary 101 series emu commuter, and 1958 the 151 series "Kodama" limited express emu, which saw the beginning of the speed-up of long distance intercity passenger services based on emu designs, culminating of course in the Tokaido Shinkansen only a few years later.

Edited August 24, 2014 by bikkuri bahn

[Sacto1985]

I do think that the introduction of the 101 Series commuter EMU, the 111 Series EMU, the 151 Series limited express EMU, and the KiHa 80 Series limited express DMU between 1958 and 1961 was the beginning of the modernization trend on JNR, especially when the trains started to sport different color schemes depending on operating region and operating type. Small wonder why most Japanese railfans want to model the JNR after 1960, since the trains were definitely more interesting looking after that.

[Fenway Park]

The 20 series Blue Train sleeping car services should not be forgotten as they changed overnight services from Tokyo to other cities in Honshu and Kyushu. 

[westfalen]

I think steam in Japan, like elsewhere, only began to become popular and sought out by railfans in the late 60's early 70's when it's phasing out picked up pace and they realised it was not going to be around much longer.  Look at all the articles and photos of steam's last stand in the north of England in 1966/67 and the West Virginia coal fields in the late 50's for example.

[Ochanomizu]

Hello,

 

I would like to make a several comments that may be relevant to the OP.

 

Firstly, I grew up in a house with a superb view.  It wasn't until I had moved out of home, into a dense, flat, urban area, that I missed that view.  I think the same is true of steam worldwide, and especially in Japan. 

 

When I was in high school in the 1980's steam trains were a symbol of the past, and the past in Japan was a bitter period in history.  Some of my school friends in those days disliked old people and old things that were representative of the war period.  I fear that many Japanese in their 50's - 70's might still feel the same way.  Much better to focus on the Shinkansen era, where Japan, once again, leads the world, at least, that's what many think.  For me, it is not that Japanese steam isn't great, it is more that contemporary Japanese railways are much better.  Here's why:

 

For the last 30 years or so, JR has marketed railways to the general public in the same way the rest of the world markets cars and sporting events.  JR, and major private railways, now design rolling stock to please the passenger with comfort, styling and innovation.  Shinkansen design has evolved to reduce noise to the general public.  Significant time and effort goes into colour schemes. one-off liveries, Joyful Trains and special rail services.  Some series, such as 215系 appear to have emerged simply to be different.  Then, there's the actual rail journeys themselves: seasonal services for viewing spring flowers, autumn leaves, koshu services and the like, as well as maintaining single-car DMU services, special lines like the Yufuin-no-mori - all expensive to maintain, yet not replaced by busses. 

 

Part of the marketing, I think, is the models themselves.  Kato, Tomix, MA and GM all make good money from the models, but these, in turn, promote the rail service.

 

Year books and rolling stock organisation books are produced annually, and are used by railfans for trainspotting.  I don't know any other country in the world that produces rolling stock organisation books that list the number of every car in every consist.  The JR biannual rolling stock organisation book is always a quick seller.

 

All of these factors couple together to form a magnificent marketing empire.  Whether you are a railfan, modeller, commuter, or tourist, one cannot help but be in awe of the amazing diversity and efficiency of contemporary Japanese Railways.

[Sacto1985]

I think steam in Japan, like elsewhere, only began to become popular and sought out by railfans in the late 60's early 70's when it's phasing out picked up pace and they realised it was not going to be around much longer.  Look at all the articles and photos of steam's last stand in the north of England in 1966/67 and the West

Virginia coal fields in the late 50's for example.

 

Correct. Remember, steam trains continued to operate in much of Japan up until the middle to late 1960's and up to the middle 1970's in Hokkaido. It's when the steam locomotives were replaced by diesel-hydraulic locomotives like the DE10 and DD51 during the 1960's that people in Japan started missing the steam locomotives.

[marknewton]

I must be in the minority then, as I'm a big fan of JNR steam locos. They're my main modelling interest, as you can see from my roster featured here:

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/3281-whats-in-your-roster/page-8?do=findComment&comment=101850

 

Strangely, I have always been a fan of British steam...British steam is number 1.

 

You'd only think that if you'd never had to work on British steam locos - I have!   

 

With the exception of the bigger BR standards and a few of the Big 4's modern designs, British steam locos are not very "user-friendly" either to run or maintain.

 

JNR standard designs by comparison are far more pleasant for both the road crews and the shed staff.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[E6系]

Hahaha ... you are correct Mr marknewton ... I've never had to work on a BR steam loco, or any loco for that matter.

 

I am also fan of the Deltic Diesels ... but I'm sure those engines are not much fun to work on either.

 

Edit:

 

It could be worse ... it could be French !!! ;)

Edited August 31, 2014 by E6系

[Nick_Burman]

I must be in the minority then, as I'm a big fan of JNR steam locos. They're my main modelling interest, as you can see from my roster featured here:

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/3281-whats-in-your-roster/page-8?do=findComment&comment=101850

 

 

You'd only think that if you'd never had to work on British steam locos - I have! 

 

With the exception of the bigger BR standards and a few of the Big 4's modern designs, British steam locos are not very "user-friendly" either to run or maintain.

 

JNR standard designs by comparison are far more pleasant for both the road crews and the shed staff.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

 

I too like steam, although drew me into Japanese modelling was a the mix of narrow gauge and private electric ops. Steam tends to get a second seat because of that, and my preferences are more towards private and industrial locos. I have a C56 and a Tramway C11 is on order and more steam (Tsugawa Koppel and Arumo 0-4-0T) are on the cards.

 

Cheers NB

Edited August 31, 2014 by Nick_Burman

[railsquid]

Apologies, I forgot I started this thread. Thanks for all the insights! I'll add some thoughts when I have some more time.

 

In the meantime, while I've still been a bit underwhelmed by the N-gauge steam locos I've seen, I had a brilliant idea how to integrate one onto the layout - as a static exhibit in a park or square (I get the impression Japan never actually scrapped any steam locos, just gave them to local authorities to display somewhere). All I need is a cheap 2nd hand one from the junk section, doesn't matter if it runs or not.