My Japanese Layout

[Alan W Aitken]

All the layouts I have built before have been HO American.  The model club I was a part of decided they were going to build a Japanese N Gauge city layout, about 30 feet long by 4 feet deep.

The club would supply the funds for all the layout, track, baseboards, wiring, buildings and all.  But whichever members were interested would buy the stock to run on them.

So I bought myself a N700 to run on the layout and I was hooked, and I just bought and bought and bought.  I now have a lot of everything, from steam era to modern.  Then the club shelved the idea of the Japanese layout.  A friend of mine had bought a lot of stuff as well, cars, buses and buildings and was looking to off load his stock, so we arranged a swap, and I have ended up with even more.

 

Now on to the point of this thread.

I am building a shed out the back to house my layout.  I should have about 5m by 2.5m to work with.   I am not the type of person to sit and shunt in a layout in N scale, I feel it’s just a little too small.  So I am thinking a nice run round layout.  At one time before my little boy was born I was building a layout in the attic and this was my plan for it (Using AutoCAD).

 

 

 

 

You may have noticed the huge football stadium in the middle, I have always wanted to build one.  My plan was the theme the layout around a match I even had a time of night it was being set 7pm, There would be thousands heading to the game, so there would be lots of people around, food being sold and all that.  It was also going to be a Thursday night, which was late night shopping in the city centre, so again lots of people.   I really wanted to pack it out with lots of detail, but also make it look right.

The track is just one big dog bone loop, heading up a helix to the staging yards above. There was going to be a main station that could take a 16 car train and the rest was going to be city and the stadium.  I love building kits while stuff runs around, so this met all my needs.

 

This is as far as i got, and it still sits like this, just with all my stock all over it/

 

 

 

Now that I am going to put a layout in the shed, I have a lot more room and a blank canvas, god help me……… 

[NJHA]

5x2,5m ... that is a nice space. The 16 cars station will take around 2,5 to 2,7m so that is a lot of space. Will you be using your original layout plan? 

[Mudkip Orange]

You may have noticed the huge football stadium in the middle

 

That looks kind of like a soccer stadium to me.

[Alan W Aitken]

5x2,5m ... that is a nice space. The 16 cars station will take around 2,5 to 2,7m so that is a lot of space. Will you be using your original layout plan? 

 

 

To be honest i am not sure,  I have an extra 700mm in the width to play with which is just over 2 feet.  I am also not restricted in my head room now.  But i have no idea where to start.  

 

I am happy for a 2.5m station, i am now maybe able to make it wider, i was planning on having the 2 focal points, the station and the football (or soccer, depending which side of the pond you are) Stadium.   I have the plans for the Dortmund Stadium in Germany and was gonna have a go at scratch building that.

 

The main thing i wont to have in this layout is -

 

Long runs for trains,

Passenger station to take 16 cars. (I have the raised viaduct station)

Football/Soccer Stadium.  (i have loads of buses to use).

 

 

 

Based in a City.

DCC or AC i am not sure how easy it is to change loco's to DCC, and i have about 40 just now that are not chipped.

I am not fussed about shunting or anything like that, i just want to run trains

 

I really like the Road plates you can get, they seem to make things look neat and tidy, and i think they would be easy to detail and make look busy,  I have managed to collect so many car's, trucks and buses, i could have a grid locked motorway.

 

If i was to use what i have there i would like to add maybe a low level freight line, so i can keep the passenger stuff separate. 

 

So idea's welcome, i am not good at the track planning stage, its the worst bit for me.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Alan W Aitken

[kvp]

 

So idea's welcome, i am not good at the track planning stage, its the worst bit for me.

If you have so much space, you could add another double loop or just a branchline from the main tracks. If you don't like shunting and don't want to act as a tower operator, then 4 separate loops could be great for you. Like 2 elevated ones and 2 partially elevated/ground level ones. (the ground level could be a mixed passenger/freight line) I would add a simple 2 track stop (with side platforms) for the stadium too. (many large stadiums in Japan have dedicated stations) Personally, i would add a bypass to the helix, so the trains don't have to travel up and down every time and could be run on the same level for a few laps.

 

With japanese trains, the simple DC block control is more than enough, especially if you don't want to run more than one train on a loop at a time. Even with complex stations and junctions, station to station signalling (aka. coarse block control) is perfectly fine in most of the cases. DCC is good if you want to shunt, dynamically set up consists with multiple locomotives, use rolling blocks and/or want to use a layout automation system with train position feedback. When only running a few trains on their own loop, DC and DCC doesn't have any visible differences. (i'm comparing a Tomix DC controller with CL and a normal DCC station) In your case, since all trains are on a single loop (your whole layout is a single loop), you could consider using DCC that will allow you to set the speed of two trains to the same level, so they won't catch each other. Adding DCC is easy for some and hard for other trains (usually the hardest for locomotives) and you would usually need 3 decoders for every emu and that could easily double or triple the cost of each train.

[katoftw]

That looks kind of like a soccer stadium to me.

Soccer/rugby/gridiron.  They are all football in some part of the world.  Considering the ball hardly touches a foot in rugby and gridiron, then are probably least close to a real foot and ball game.

 

Although you could watch the Oakland Raiders or Jacksonville Jaguars, I dont think they have played a game in the past half decade that ressembles football either. :laughing6:

Edited August 19, 2014 by katoftw

[Alan W Aitken]

I like a bit of American Football as we call it, i follow the seahawks, have done for about  8 years. I used to play for an Edinburgh team as well,nose tackle fun fun fun.

 

I have been looking at my plan more and i think 4 main lines would be alot better, lets more trains run around.  

 

I have about 30 buses, the tonytec my trick box's ones.  I might try and sell them on E-bay, unless someone would like to swap them for some other vehicles???

[katoftw]

49ers fan here.  Boo go away 12th man. haha

 

I like the idea of an extra main line.  running 2 trains at once would be more enjoyable.

[Melandir]

That looks kind of like a soccer stadium to me.

 

Soccer is how is called in US, the rest of the world call it football

[E6系]

Hello Mr Alan,

 

Please allow me to make some comment on your track plan. 

 

Firstly, I would consider a long, straight ramp over the helix.  A 16-car shinkansen will not ascend successfully without great care and control over speed.

 

Secondly, shinkansen generally runs on dedicated, elevated track.  There are few exceptions in the north.  Have you considered using the Tomix elevated track components for shinkansen and creating a separate track for local trains?  The reason I ask this question is because you have many shorter sidings in your yard, but your track looks like a good design for shinkansen only.

[Alan W Aitken]

Hello Mr Alan,

 

Please allow me to make some comment on your track plan. 

 

Firstly, I would consider a long, straight ramp over the helix.  A 16-car shinkansen will not ascend successfully without great care and control over speed.

 

Secondly, shinkansen generally runs on dedicated, elevated track.  There are few exceptions in the north.  Have you considered using the Tomix elevated track components for shinkansen and creating a separate track for local trains?  The reason I ask this question is because you have many shorter sidings in your yard, but your track looks like a good design for shinkansen only.

 

Thank you for the comment, i will do my best to answer your questions and points.

 

Point 1, would the Shinkansen not have the power to pull it up, and it will be a very shallow rise on the helix.

 

Point 2,  I am aware that they normally run on a dedicated track in Japan.  On the lower plan there is a support wall where the tracks runs through, into the loop at the bottom and the helix at the top.  These tracks have no scenic's. All the track in the scenic section is on raised track, opening out at the station.  I am wanting to build a city, as i like scratch build stuff and fully detail my buildings.  As far as the trains go, I like to put them on the track and let them run, I am not fused if a cargo train runs through a station or on Shinkansen tracks, i just like to see stuff run.  I have a few Dutch and German loco's which will run also.

 

I love collecting and running trains, i want the theme my layout around a Japanese city, but if it looks good i will run it.

 

I have alot of 4 and 6 car units which will be stored in the sidings until i want to give them a run.  so this sidings are just there to store stuff.

 

Hope thins makes sense .

 

Cheers Alan

[cteno4]

Alan,

 

Your helix looks like it will be about a 2% grade, this could be tough for a 16 car Shinkansen if it only has one motor car (this is usually the case with kato, tomix have 2 motor cars in the usual 16 car consist). The longer Shinkansens definitely do slow a bit in 180 curves, so on a helix with all cars on a curve they will slow quite a bit I would expect. It's the long carriages and the diaphragms and connectors which add the resistance.

 

One of our club members had a 1.5x helix from kato double viaduct and 8 car Shinkansens would sometimes struggle on the helix at speed. That was something like a 2.25% grade.

 

Jeff

[E6系]

Hello Mr Alan,

 

Please allow me to comment further on the helix product.  Product such is this (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10196709) is only suitable for short car such as this (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10020010) because longer car and longer formation cannot successfully negotiate radius 177mm.  Long car and long formation will derail.

 

I have considered Tomix N700 shinkansen car. If you make custom helix of radius 354mm, gradient will be 2.5% if rise is 56mm.  If you make radius 391mm, gradient will be 2.3% if rise is 56mm.  56mm is really minimum, unless you run with panto down.  Depending on your structure the rise may need to be 65-70mm.  But I still worry about power to push around corner and derailing on curve, even at 2.5%.

 

As to other matters, I merely point out the opportunity.  I can already imagine N700 rocketing past the station on your layout.

[railsquid]

For reference, I have got a 180º 381mm inclined curve on my layout (see here); I think that's about a 3.7% grade, the 4-car Kato has no problems with it and the power unit from that set does OK pullingthe equivalent of 8 cars but I think it would start to struggle if the incline continued.

[Alan W Aitken]

I really appreciate the feedback here, something I was not aware of being a problem. I will look into this more.

 

With my layout now moving to the shed, I have a feeling my layout will completely change, but this is all good information for the next design.

[katoftw]

Without knowing from experience.  I know cars also offer resistance in curves, and having a 16 car unit offers alot of resistence.

 

Would making a helix with 180 degree curves and some straight sections between the 180 curves help this issue out?  Meaning only 8 cars etc are ever on a curve at any one time???

[cteno4]

yes that would probably help quite a bit, but with even a 2% or incline i fear it might be tough on a one motor car 16 car shinkansen.

 

jeff

[macdon]

My current (ver2) shinkansen layout has a 2" incline in the span of 8' - one straight run and the other curve. Thou my limit is only half consist (8 cars), there's always a slight speed lost. A helix with all curves is of course a different animal but something im intrigued to try down the road.

The kato double viaduct track might be a good candidate to use as the track catenary holes can be used for the vertical posts of the helix.

 

Mardon