Dumb Question

[JR 500系]

Sorry guys, I was watching videos on youtube and getting more files for station departures, and I suddenly realise this when I was watching the Cassiopeia...

 

The Cassiopeia is an overnight train right, so it's like almost more than 12 hours journey?

 

Now the dumb question is, will the driver get any rest? There doesn't seem to be any sleeping facility in the EFs that pulled them nor the DE10 that pulls them, nor are there any toilets so how do the drivers manage the 12 hour journey?

 

Oh... Do they actually get off the train at stations to settle this?

 

Sorry for dumb question, just curios and had to ask   :P

[ToniBabelony]

It's funny you asked. A few months ago, a programme aired with the same question on the driver for the Twilight Express. Since the train travels over different company areas, the driver changes per company and area. Passenger train drivers usually have only a certain area of operations/expertise and they can only go so far as that area allows them to.

 

So yes, the train stops at intermediate stations where the drivers change. These can also be non-scheduled stations (for the passengers), just to change the driver quickly. These are called 運転停車 (unten teisha; Operation Stops). For the Cassiopeia, these are Aomori and Kanita for both up and down bound trains and Kita-Toyosu, Kamiiso and Morioka for up bound trains only (according to Wikipedia). I presume these trains are also with a double cab-crew.

 

It's not a dumb question actually you see ;)

Edited August 10, 2014 by Toni Babelony

[Sacto1985]

I remember when YouTube member raraemondayo777 did that long multipart video of a trip on the now-discontinued Akebono overnight train from Aomori to Ueno in 2012, the train stopped at a number of stations along the way (I recognized Nagaoka and Minakami Stations). I believe these stops are often where train engineers are changed.

[miyakoji]

It seemed to me that there are a lot of operational borders.  For example on a JR West special rapid from Maibara to Himeji, I think the driver would change at Kyoto and somewhere around Kobe.

 

Looking through my ticket collection, I see lots of stamps that I received when entering stations, but also some others that I guess I got while onboard:  Maizuru tetsudou-bu, Miyako ressha-ku, Nagoya unten-ku, Fukuchiyama shaso-ku, Tokyo 1st Unyu-sho, Tokyo 2nd Unyu-sho, and a few others that I don't think are station stamps, but they're too blurry to make out.

 

The labels there describe different things, if the direct translations are anything to go by.  Tetsudou-bu, railway department or office, seems like a purely administrative division, not related to drivers, conductors or trains, but they also have shisha, 支社, branch offices.  Not sure what the difference is.  Ressha-ku I would guess is a depot; shasho-ku, a conductor district; unten-ku, a driver district; unyu-sho, no idea really but those are from shinkansen tickets.  Maybe terminology has changed over the years and old labels are kept, maybe they've always been used interchangably, maybe there's some actual distinction.  Regardless, when trains cross some of these borders, I would expect to see some crew change.

 

I found this link below, which explains that the geographic areas in which drivers and conductors work are often the same on private railways, but from the JNR days, the JR companies have a lot of different divisions that are non-coterminous.  Particularly on limited expresses, drivers may change several times while the conductor does not.

 

http://okwave.jp/qa/q1372120.html

[JR 500系]

Thanks guys for the replies!

 

It's interesting to know that the drivers are only allowed to 'work' or in this case, drive within their areas. But then again, how would they get back home? Especially for night drivers like the Cassiopeia, Twlight Express, Sunrise Express etc. when they 'off work' in midnight when the train stops at the stations far from their homes..

 

Curious about the lives and how a train engineer's schedule works...

[Sacto1985]

It's interesting to know that the drivers are only allowed to 'work' or in this case, drive within their areas. But then again, how would they get back home? Especially for night drivers like the Cassiopeia, Twlight Express, Sunrise Express etc. when they 'off work' in midnight when the train stops at the stations far from their homes..

 

 

Maybe these train drivers--which are rapidly disappearing in Japan operating overnight passenger trains--stay at a "business hotel" located near the station where they do the crew change? I know that in the USA, on long distance freight trains the engineer and conductor operate the train from one crew change point to another, then get rest at a nearby hotel the railroad has a contract with (the railroad also contracts out for a restaurant that operates 24 hours a day just to serve train crews).

[miyakoji]

I think stations at these administrative borders have crew dormitories.  There's gotta be something in those suspicious second floors :)

[ToniBabelony]

I think stations at these administrative borders have crew dormitories.  There's gotta be something in those suspicious second floors :)

 

Very true. They even have beds that 'force' the driver to wake up on time and get out of bed. A sort of more aggressive alarm clock with a pillow on the mattress that slowly inflates and lifts the upper body, which makes the driver wake up.

[stevenh]

Note that it's not just the drivers that change.... the locos change too for the Seikan Tunnel, etc...

 

http://modelrail.otenko.com/japanese-trains/japanese-night-trains-twilight-express

See the heading 'Southbound engine swap: Tsuruga'. It shows the EF81 Twilight Express liveried locos swapping at Tsuruga.

Note that (from Sapporo to Osaka) it's first DD51s (as per the first shot under the blog post heading 'A ticket in hand'), then an ED79 through the tunnel and then two separate EF81s.

 

 

Sad they're going the way of the dodo.

Edited August 11, 2014 by stevenh

[JR 500系]

Yap, I heard about the Cassiopeia changing locomotives at various stages of the journey:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaOmbkGysqA

 

Here's changing a locomotive at Aoimori station. Weird the train now goes the other direction  

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNA0hpamZvw

 

Here's another changing over to Diesel DD51 locomotives at Hakodate station for upward trip to Sapporo.

 

The thing is, do the drivers actually have a space to sleep, and then JR provides them with another train or bus back to their homes?

[kvp]

 

Weird the train now goes the other direction  

This is the only way to get out of a terminal station. On the other hand, this is exactly what happens in Prague with the Budapest - Hamburg train.

 

 

The thing is, do the drivers actually have a space to sleep, and then JR provides them with another train or bus back to their homes?

 

Usually yes, or if the trains are operated in pairs, then the drivers take the opposing direction train back to their home station. Pretty much the same happens with airline pilots and crew. On the other hand, some of the train crews (for example on railjets) are on the train for the whole trip and only changed at the home station after a complete round trip of several days.

[marknewton]

Thanks guys for the replies!

 

It's interesting to know that the drivers are only allowed to 'work' or in this case, drive within their areas. But then again, how would they get back home? Especially for night drivers like the Cassiopeia, Twlight Express, Sunrise Express etc. when they 'off work' in midnight when the train stops at the stations far from their homes..

 

Curious about the lives and how a train engineer's schedule works...

 

I'm speaking only from my own experience, but I know that many railways throughout the world do things much the same as we do, so my comments are applicable to many situations. 

 

Train crew are usually limited to operating on particular routes and services crewed by the depot they work out of. In NSW this is defined by the terms road knowledge or route knowledge. Once you have acquired the knowledge - a process known as learning the road, you are said to be qualified for that route. Traction knowledge - being qualified for a particular loco/EMU/DMU type - is also a factor in where you can go when working. If you are going to transfer to another depot with different routes and traction you must be trained up and qualified before you take up at the new depot. If you are required to work a route or traction you aren't qualified for at short notice, perhaps due to an emergency, you can ask for a "pilot" driver who will supervise you while you run the train.

 

When crew reach the point where they are relieved by the next crew, they can do one of two things. The can travel back to their depot, which we call "going home pass", or they can book off and go to barracks, known as a "box job". Up until fairly recent times my railway had many facilties around the network known as barracks. They were just like a hotel, having bedrooms, bathrooms, kitchen and dining areas, and often recreation rooms and areas. The barracks were usually managed by female staff, who were known as "barracks matrons". My wife did this for a while, she was the last barracks matron at Eveleigh before its closure. These days crews mostly stay in motels, although there are a few railway-run barracks remaining.

 

Some long-distance freight trains here have a crew van as part of the consist. They are typically converted sleeping cars that have kitchen and bathroom facilities as well as berths. Relief crews travel in the van and changeover with the crew on the loco as required.

 

As far as Japan is concerned, crews are limited by road and traction qualifications as well as the boundaries between different JR companies. I know that at many crew change points there are dormitory facilities like our barracks where booked-off crews rest between jobs.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[Sacto1985]

Speaking of crew changes, it's going to be very interesting to see how they handle driver/conductor changes on the Hokuriku Shinkansen when that opens next year. Since the entire run from Tokyo to Kanazawa is not really that far, my guess is that we won't see crew changes with the Kagayaki limited express train, but will see a crew change--probably at Nagano--with the all-stops Hakutaka train.

[Sacto1985]

By the way, I'm sure the crew dormitories are still around on various JR lines, but I think they essentially serve JR Freight crews (for example at various points between the Tokyo area and Kokura on the Tokaidō, San'yō and Kagoshima Main Lines). Okayama, especially with that gigantic freight yard just west of Okayama Station, would be one of those crew change points.

[katoftw]

Dormitories are a thing of the past.  Nowadays most rail companies just have drivers running legs/sections of lines.  Might do 3.5-4.0 hours one direction, then lunch/break, and go back to their start location on another train.

 

Keeps drivers to normal shifts.  Prevents overtime being paid.

Edited August 14, 2014 by katoftw

[JR 500系]

Interesting. Would like to see some real photos of the dormitories...

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10038044

Well I guess there's a model for this, so it should be correct in real life too... But maybe as Kato has mentioned, it may well be a thing of the past...

 

Thanks Mark for the reply! Yap it seems it's identical to airline too, have a air steward friend who explained to me the exact same thing.

[Sacto1985]

Dormitories are a thing of the past.  Nowadays most rail companies just have drivers running legs/sections of lines.  Might do 3.5-4.0 hours one direction, then lunch/break, and go back to their start location on another train.

 

Keeps drivers to normal shifts.  Prevents overtime being paid.

 

That's why I suggested that JR Freight may have access to a "business hotel" where train crews can rest after a six to eight hour run. For example, Okayama Station has three Toyoko Inn business hotels within short walking distance of the station itself, and it's only a short vehicle ride to the big freight yard west of Okayama Station. As such, JR Freight could contract to use a small number of rooms at one of the Toyoko Inn hotels specifically for JR Freight crews between runs eastbound or westbound on the San'yō Main Line.

[katoftw]

That's why I suggested that JR Freight may have access to a "business hotel" where train crews can rest after a six to eight hour run. For example, Okayama Station has three Toyoko Inn business hotels within short walking distance of the station itself, and it's only a short vehicle ride to the big freight yard west of Okayama Station. As such, JR Freight could contract to use a small number of rooms at one of the Toyoko Inn hotels specifically for JR Freight crews between runs eastbound or westbound on the San'yō Main Line.

hotels cost money. short vehicle rides cost money. in an emergency situation then i'd say yes.  but a business spending that kind of money as a regular outgoing is just insane to today business environments.  shareholders and investors would be going nuts if they found out money was being spent on things like that.

 

which is why you find drvier changeover points every 3 to 4 hours apart.  Just become one giant relay race from start to finish.  and luckily freight goes boths directions, so a driver will find his way home again.  saves spending money on hotels and taxis.

 

to be honest, i have zero idea how they do it in japan.  but being as astute as the japanese are with money.  i'm pretty sure they would assess their outgoings.  or i could be 100% incorrect.

Edited August 14, 2014 by katoftw

[kvp]

For freight yards and larger stations, a simple solution is to have a few old sleeping coaches on an unused siding, permanently connected to local utilities. You can see many of these at various hungarian stations. Many of these cars are pre ww2 designs.

[miyakoji]

Looks like the word is kaminshitsu, 仮眠室. I was searching using the word for dormitory, which wasn't getting any results. This isn't producing much either :), but there are a few hits: http://www.suginamigaku.org/content_disp.php?c=49b88bb12d0a3&n=4

[Densha]

What about 鉄道官舎 (tetsudou kansha)? That's the word Kato is using for those model buildings.

[railsquid]

Given that multiple results for 鉄道官舎 on the first page reference the Kato building, I don't think it's in wide use.

 

I think the appropriate term is "乗務員宿泊所" (jomuin shukuhakujo), there's even a Wikipedia article.