ICE/Shinkansen Portal: continuation Question

[inobu]

History: I was working in this project which was interuppted by a fire that pretty much trashed everthing. Im at a point where I can restart it. I have a few questions that needs to be answered first.

 

The design: Was a two piece set that allowed for extending the tunnel depth.

 

 

 

 

This is the first piece

 

 

What is available

 

Faller N 272582 ICE/Road Tunnel Portal, Plastic Kit

 

 

$18 to $22 USD

 

 

Noch N 34840 ICE Double Track Oval Tunnel Portal

 

$15 to 19 USD

 

 

I guess Webskipper could be one to answer the question as he purchased both products.

 

Based on the product that are available. What would be a fair market price for the ICE Portal designed above.

I'm trying to perform a cost evaluation.

 

Opinions and comments are appreciated.  (I'm not sure why Martijn Meerts started blinking in my head)

 

Thanks

Inobu 

[the_weird_one]

What would you charge for the 3D model (have access to my own 3D printer)

[inobu]

What would you charge for the 3D model (have access to my own 3D printer)

That's a really interesting question as I never thought about selling the 3D model. 

 

Looks to be a lot of factors that needs to be taken into consideration. I need to think about that one. 

 

Inobu

[Densha]

There's also http://www.shapeways.com/ where you can upload your 3D model and set a price for it that people will pay you. Shapeways will then print the model. There are some different materials available as well.

 

I have no idea about the costs of printing yourself vs shapeways.

[cteno4]

Inobu,

 

great to see you back my friend! hope the recovery is going well, those situations take so long to get totally behind you.

 

Glad to hear you are back on the project! I'm game for around $25 for the entry piece, maybe more.

 

Cost of this at shapeways might be pretty large due to the volume of plastic in this. Extrusion printing it probably won't get a smooth surface w/o sanding it down from what I've seen from extrusion printers. Probably perfect for the powder binding printers, but have not followed the printing costs on those lately. They have been a big hit with the architects, so lots of small shops have them now and prices I'm sure have gone down (its really killed the had built market for high end home models).

 

Wonder if urethane foam casting then spraying with the plastic sealer they use on foam models might be a more inexpensive option than traditional resins or 3d printing. But might be more manual labor and not worth it. Would allow for easy trimming as needed to fit it onto a layout (where I am looking to put it on the jrm layout is on a curve and will need a little trimming I expect.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[the_weird_one]

I have no idea about the costs of printing yourself vs shapeways.

Using my printer (http://www.ff3dp.com/#!creator/c1txh) and ABS it works out about 1/3 the cost of shapeways per cm of filament used. Based on comparison with extruded printing not powder printing.

 

Your right that extrusion doesn't leave a smooth surface though Jeff, but at the same time due to my garage kit hobby I'm very used to polishing the surfaces of stuff to get them smooth.

[inobu]

What would you charge for the 3D model (have access to my own 3D printer)

I don't think I'm going to sell the file but here is something interesting.

 

A knock off ?. What's odd is the grove in the rear.

 

It appears that you can download the file for free.

 

 

 

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:219606

 

 

Inobu

[inobu]

Extention is done so I guess I need to show what it looks like installed. 

 

Inobu

[the_weird_one]

Inoba, thank you for that, will admit I've never looked for one before since all the 3D modelling I've done has been bespoke for cosplays.

 

Curious though that there's one that looks identical to yours though.

[inobu]

Inoba, thank you for that, will admit I've never looked for one before since all the 3D modelling I've done has been bespoke for cosplays.

 

Curious though that there's one that looks identical to yours though.

I noticed that too. I wonder why they cut the slot in the rear so big I dont think they realize what it is for.

 

Inobu

[inobu]

Here is the portal with extensions. This example is configured with cardboard instead of styrene. The one issue with long extensions is the cardstock wants to flatten out. I just placed tape along the bottom acting as straps.

 

It would not be difficult to add tunnel lighting along the side or top.

 

 

The extensions mate up to one another and I found that taping them together is better in that you can change the configuration if needed.

Here they are placed together.

 

The white piece is the first sample piece. I shouyld have the rest in a day or so. I will then put together a finished scene. 

 

Inobu

 

Inobu

Edited August 6, 2014 by inobu

[inobu]

Update:

 

My last comment "a day or so"....right..... well I have everything but time.

 

 

 

Im going to use these to build a NTRAK of the Nentershausen, Westerwald tunnels. Its a wooded area that has a series of tunnels and a lot of trees. Hopefully I can get through that in a reasonable time frame.

 

Inobu

[inobu]

Oh Jeff,

 

I built the portals front section with a tight radius in mind. This is the portal sitting in the middle of a via duct curve and the 500 clears it no problem.

 

 

 

 So I dont think you will have a problem.

 

Inobu

Edited August 14, 2014 by inobu

[cteno4]

Cool! Thanks, will look much nicer than what we currently have!

 

Jeff

[inobu]

Well, I finally got time to work on the mock up. I added a few pieces that should make the install a lot easier.

 

Tunnel Blocks

 

These blocks are precut to the exact diameter of the portal innrer walls. Gluing the blocks together adds depth 

and painting the walls will create a realistic view. It also addresses the lighting problem. You can wire in LED's before you glue them together. THe blocks are 2" thick

and will create evenly spaced lights. 

 

Integrating the tunnel into the surroundings will be a lot easier too.     

 

 

 

Once glued together you can carve out the basic shape and then build on or around it. The foam has

texture that will carry a concrete appearance when painted.You can see the second block is out of position

 

 

Inobu

[JR 500系]

That's a nice idea for a tunnel and portal! Can I borrow it?  :)  

 

Great idea to stack up the blocks to form a tunnel. Also, can the blocks be removed just in case there's a derailment inside to take care of?

[inobu]

That's a nice idea for a tunnel and portal! Can I borrow it?  :)

 

Great idea to stack up the blocks to form a tunnel. Also, can the blocks be removed just in case there's a derailment inside to take care of?

You can construct the tunnel to your needs based on what you do and dont glue down.

 

INobu 

[Bernard]

Inobu.....you do really nice and precise work! How did you get the arcs in the foam board so perfect?

[inobu]

Inobu.....you do really nice and precise work! How did you get the arcs in the foam board so perfect?

Hey, Bernard

 

I'm cheating. I machined the blocks as I could not draw a straight line to save my life. The key is managing your abilities/weakness and using them when needed. 

For example cutting the slope is my attempt to cutting a straight line.

 

 

 

Inobu

[cteno4]

Inobu

 

Nice work dude! Kudos!

 

Jeff

[Melandir]

Inobu,

 

have you tested your portal also with tomix finetrack? the spacing is 37mm, a little wider than kato do you think they can still work?

[inobu]

 

I have not tested fine track , I don't think it will be a problem. The portal inner diameter from the corner of the mouth

Is 69mm giving you a lot of room.

Inobu

Edited September 2, 2014 by inobu

[inobu]

I'm going to do one portal scene because of time constraints. I will condense the scenery just to show what a finished portal looks

like.

 

Here where I left off tonight. 

 

 

 

The chemical wood should dry over night and I can finish it up tomorrow.

 

Here is an interesting find. Pink Foam can be glued with spray adhesive. I was able to glue the foam together

and grind it down with a steel brush without it breaking apart. 

 

I used 3M 77 spray.

 

Here is the trick.

 

1. Lay some paper out. (Not too thick, copier paper will work.)
2. Spray the adhesive onto the paper wait a few seconds until the spray propellent acetone evaporates/gases out.
3. Apply the paper to the foam.
4. Apply spray adhesive onto the exposed paper.... wait for it to gas out again.
5. Apply the foam onto the paper.

Why does this work. The acetone evaporates from the paper leaving the adhesive. As the adhesive soaks into the paper

it creates a bonding membrane. Because the paper is so thin the second application completes the bonding membrane 

and now the paper is part of the bonding agent. Depending on how much adhesive you apply the form covering breaks

instead of the paper.

 

Inobu  

[kvp]

The only question is if the remaining acetone will damage the foam over time or not. On the other hand, i've seen many cases of water diluted synthetic wood glue used as a spray on adhesive for foam, paper, wood, ballast and pretty much everything. Of course the drying time is longer, so it's a slower method.

[inobu]

Finally finished.

 

I know the image I posted last night didn't look like anything but here is the results.

 

 

 

Here is the side view with the tunnel blocks. Notice the orange paper I used in the gluing process.

 

 

I have to figure out how to group them.

 

Inobu

Edited September 3, 2014 by inobu