Joyful Train Sub-Forum

[bikkuri bahn]

Platform 1: Birth & Death of a Forum

 

 

I always wondered at this wording- just a whimsy?

[disturbman]

I always thought "Doktor" sounded more efficient than "Doctor", you know because it sounds, looks and is German.

Of course, "Birth & Death of a Forum" is supposed to be whimsy. 

As for the rest, I would personally be against more sub-forums and I am still unsure the proposed stickies are the correct one. And though I am aware of the limitations of stickies, I do think they work around here, the New Releases subforum proves it. But their amount needs to be strictly controlled.
Definitely want to hear more user opinions on this.

 

In my mind, Scenery has always been supposed to be about scenery techniques more than anything else, tracks are dependent on gauges.

[Densha]

Considering the announcement subforums in in my plan would only feature announcements/news you don't need stickies because they should already be limited in some way. So I'll stop talking about stickies now. I suggested topics per company but I'm sure there are other ways as well. Shinkansen for example only need one topic for all Shinkansen news instead of putting them in their respective company's topic. Joyful trains the same: can be placed in the company's topic but a Joyful train topic can also be created. People will however quickly get confused about whether to have to post it in the company's topic or in the Joyful trains topic. We have to think about topics that make sense if such a subforum would be created, I also realized that just topics for companies are too limited.

 

Why am I opposed to put every discussion and question on Japanese rail in the announcements subforum? That's because some things don't fit there at all. Examples:

Question about signalling (no news but there's no appropriate subforum for it): http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/8812-whence-the-repeating-signal/

Random news article which doesn't fit in the railway news subforum, better off in the off-topic subforum (IMO): http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/8857-shinkansen-tops-list-of-100-innovative-postwar-technologies/

Question about a certain train (absolutely no news/announcement no matter how you look at it, but again there's no appropriate subforum): http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/8841-kiha-52-and-kiha-59-specs/

Announcement of TV program (belongs in other hobbies or off-topic subforum though): http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/8680-trains-on-tv-fuji-tv-sat-may-10/

Where would you put these topics in? I understand people just post them in the announcements subforum because there's no good option available. That's why I would like to separate news/announcements from other Japanese rail talk.

 

And maybe some more (active) moderating will be needed for that, but I already said I can help with that.

 

"Definitely want to hear more user opinions on this."

Yep. It's basically only a few people suggesting things now and I have the feeling most people are just sitting by idly.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Densha

[disturbman]

Then, why not rename it as: Japan Rail: News, Announcements & General Discussion. I personally don't see the need to open a new subforum for general discussions about JRail. I think it would all fit quite nicely all together like that and to create another sub-division will just add that, another sub-division and create more space for lost threads.

[Densha]

I don't agree that another subforum will create more lost topics, it's actually meant to achieve the opposite. By hinting that certain subjects should be placed in the relevant forum topics you have less lost topics because you keep them alive.

[Guest ___]

My only thing about sub sub forums is that newer users and older ones alike may not realize there is a second level forum inside another forum so if you are on a page in forum (not the main page or top level) you may not know. This would only be an issue for those readers or lurkers who come from a Google search, which I suspect may be a decent number.

 

Ive always wanted to ask Big M what is the page hit via loggin vs google search via bots.

[Densha]

Ermm well I may be confusing terms in that case. I meant something like this, using disturbman's proposed layout:

 

Platform 6: Prototype
- Japan Rail: News & Announcements

- Japan Rail: General Discussion
- Japan Rail: Pictures & Videos
- Non-Japanese Rail

[Krackel Hopper]

I see the idea - I think this is an idea that looks good on paper but doesn't go as smooth in reality.

 

Densha, I appreciate your desire to organize but I fear it may make things more difficult for the casual user.

 

If we add sub forums for the JR Groups, that is 7 sub forums plus Private, plus Heritage and we are talking about 9 sub forums! How many casual users, or even regular users, want to click down into 9 different sub forums just to see what's new? By having a generic 'news & announcements' You will catch someone's attention who may have previously had no interest in the topic. If they have to click down into additional sub forums, they just won't. Resulting in even less discussion.

 

I think there will always be posts that don't quite fit. The "Painted Train" thread is located in N Gauge. Most of the topics are related to models so it fits there. However, sometimes we talk about prototypes in that thread. Should those couple posts be pulled from Platform 2: 'Model Railroading' and be stuffed into Platform 6: 'Prototype' -> Japan Rail -> News & Announcements -> JR Hokkaido -> Painted Trains (or whatever) to sit alone with no conversation because the rest of the discussion is still on Platform 2?

 

Or for example the recently released Nagano Series 2100 'Monster Hunter' B-Train Shorty. Someone might post in 'New Release' while another posts in 'B-Train Shorty' and a third in 'Painted Trains'. We have the same information posted in three spots. Not exactly a bad thing as some people who read 'Painted Trains' may never look at 'New Releases'

 

While some posts/discussions do need to be moved into a different forum or thread, many times it is just a digression or natural progression from the original post and should stay with that tread. Heavy policing by moderators will just frustrate and annoy people, making them less likely to post and participate.

 

I tend to agree with disturbman's slight streamlining of the forums.

 

Also his stance on pinned topics, they work (new release forum) but need to be used carefully and in moderation.

 

As others have said, if we add more sub forums we may be better organized but we will have dead forums. There will be sub sub forums where the newest post is months old. Or a sub sub forum with a whopping three threads. Keeping it open keeps things more lively.

 

I apologize for the poorly thought out comments, it's 1:00AM here and I'm just rambling my thoughts on the topic. If there's something people don't understand, feel free to ask and I'll try and clarify.

 

Jon

[Densha]

If we add sub forums for the JR Groups, that is 7 sub forums plus Private, plus Heritage and we are talking about 9 sub forums! How many casual users, or even regular users, want to click down into 9 different sub forums just to see what's new? By having a generic 'news & announcements' You will catch someone's attention who may have previously had no interest in the topic. If they have to click down into additional sub forums, they just won't. Resulting in even less discussion.

Maybe I haven't been clear, but I already realized that tons of subforums won't work. Thus my only standing suggestion is to separate Japan Rail: News & Announcements from Japan Rail: General Discussion and do not create any subforums in those. News & Announcements would be used for topics such as 'JR East rolling stock developments', 'JR Hokkaido mishaps', 'Shinkansen developments', 'Joyful train news', 'Keisei news', etc. to keep stuff nicely together. General Discussion for just about anything else about Japanese rail.

 

I think there will always be posts that don't quite fit. The "Painted Train" thread is located in N Gauge. Most of the topics are related to models so it fits there. However, sometimes we talk about prototypes in that thread. Should those couple posts be pulled from Platform 2: 'Model Railroading' and be stuffed into Platform 6: 'Prototype' -> Japan Rail -> News & Announcements -> JR Hokkaido -> Painted Trains (or whatever) to sit alone with no conversation because the rest of the discussion is still on Platform 2?

 

Or for example the recently released Nagano Series 2100 'Monster Hunter' B-Train Shorty. Someone might post in 'New Release' while another posts in 'B-Train Shorty' and a third in 'Painted Trains'. We have the same information posted in three spots. Not exactly a bad thing as some people who read 'Painted Trains' may never look at 'New Releases'

 

While some posts/discussions do need to be moved into a different forum or thread, many times it is just a digression or natural progression from the original post and should stay with that tread. Heavy policing by moderators will just frustrate and annoy people, making them less likely to post and participate.

Totally agreed with that. No problem posting things in multiple threads, but it makes it so that multiple conversations about the same topic are going on in different locations about sometimes even the same things. That's not really something that bothers me though.

 

I only think that making a new topic for every new release or every new train announced or every little news article can better be placed in topics such as 'JR East Rolling stock developments', 'B-Train shorty new releases' and such. A bit like how the 'What did you order or the post deliver?' and 'What's in your roster?' threads which keeps people from posting every single product they buy in separate threads. I'm sure there are things that don't fit in such sticky-like topics, but you can just make a new topic for that.

 

Alternatively keep News & Announcements and General Discussion together but if you still want to make it more organized that way you need a bunch of stickies for the things I mentioned which push the other topics below the pages, looks weird and probably results in those topics getting lost and not seen. That's why I suggested what I wrote in the first paragraph (above the quote).

 

Tld;dr: I hope you get now that my proposed change only involves one extra 'Japan Rail: General Discussion' section and maybe a few dedicated topics and stickies here and there that disturbman also suggested.

 

Just a random thought: you can also make a list of these kinda topics on the homepage.

[E6系]

Hello again Mr distrubman,

 

I like your revised  list.  Please allow me to make two more suggestions:

 

1. Where does one discuss layouts in general?  For example, I see a layout and want to discuss it, but it is not my personal project, nor a club layout;

 

2. I think Scenery belongs under Platform 5, as Platform 4 is generally about electrical and mechanical issues.

[katoftw]

Adding more forums is not going to make posting and finding information easier.

 

I'm not sure if those suggesting are actually reading others posts.

 

The community isn't busy enough to warrent extra areas. Keep it simple. Merge some slow sub forums and boarden the content in others. Simple.

[miyakoji]

I agree with E6's point #1 and katoftw's comment about broadening content.  Although, fortunately JNS Forum does not over-moderate.  Another train-related discussion board that I know, which shall remain nameless , seems a bit too eager to accuse posters of being off topic, and it discourages discussion.

 

We're all here for basically the same reason, and I don't mind if I see some threads about topics I'm not specifically looking for.  I might find something new that I like.

 

After reading everyone's comments, all of which seem carefully considered, I still think it would be best overall that the board continues to operate as it is.

[Guest ___]

I agree with E6's point #1 and katoftw's comment about broadening content.  Although, fortunately JNS Forum does not over-moderate.  Another train-related discussion board that I know, which shall remain nameless , seems a bit too eager to accuse posters of being off topic, and it discourages discussion.

 

We're all here for basically the same reason, and I don't mind if I see some threads about topics I'm not specifically looking for.  I might find something new that I like.

 

After reading everyone's comments, all of which seem carefully considered, I still think it would be best overall that the board continues to operate as it is.

 

I do have to admit, I'm glad we are self-moderating but, I get a flustered on here at times when we have a thread that runs 10 pages and about how to rewire a KATO DD51, and four of those pages are side conversations about why TOMIX switch tracks seem to derail a MicroAce tram, then when we do moderate, Disturbman or I split those posts off to a separate topic, get bitched out in PM's over it.. 

[miyakoji]

To be honest I don't think I've ever seen a thread with such a substantial and unrelated second topic.  In that case I don't see any problem with splitting it off, I don't really see why anyone would, on that other forum the posts would probably be deleted, maybe the user too :).  I read the prototype forums more than anything, and sometimes there will be tangential and very interesting information about history, culture, etc.  I'm always happy to learn about that sort of thing.

[JR 500系]

Please allow me to thank the moderators so far in this forum.

 

Moderating is a tough job indeed. I was moderating in a Lego forum before and we do get bitched around. Thing is, we exercised 'Absolute' power over there and none could question the moderators. Guess what happened there? The forum went dead as a ghost town. No one dared to say anything anymore for fear of getting warned by moderators. We busted people out of the forum for saying the wrong things, and they just keep coming back with other names and emails.

 

Like Miyakoji san said, keeping an open mind about things kinda makes people want to talk more.

 

I do agree sometimes stuff gets chucked all over the place, and sometimes we try to search for them and couldn't find them. Started a new post/ thread about it only to discover that was discussed somewhere before in a thread that's actually not related to the discussion.

 

It's great to brainstorm and collect ideas from everyone~ Helps to know each other's expectations and suggestions.

 

Finally I do agree too the classified section needs to stay. There were a couple of good deals made by both buying and selling on them which is way better than ebay. A model train fan will always appreciate another's older model and there is mutual understanding for making deals unlike the open market.

[Ochanomizu]

Hello,

 

The most important piece of information in this thread is the fact that only 13 people have bothered to vote ..........................

 

They are probably the same people who also take the effort to search for their topic before asking, or starting a new one .....

[cteno4]

Forums are about the worst system to try and organize content, the content is a communal stream of thought. It's really more about the conversation about the content than the content itself. I've done content design for like 25 plus years as part of the exhibit and multimedia work I do and forums are probably the most frustrating way of unearthing a gem, but there are great gems there! Many times the gem is buried in the stream of the whole conversation, or in the bank somewhere. Then again it can be hard to even find the right stream many times!

 

I keep meaning on working on some sort of free form data base to store away useful bits of info from forums like jns but never get around to it! I get lazy and usually I can unearth what I might be looking for as I have some recollection of where it might be, but a newbie just has to rely on a search...

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[Guest ___]

We've tried the data base a couple of times on here with the same results... *cough JNS Wiki. I had about 72 hours plus on that project. Always go the 2chan route and do away wit forums outright ^_^

[cteno4]

Finding, organizing, writing, editing,etc is a huge amount of work! It is ALWAYS the most underestimated in the media, web, and exhibit projects I work on. No matter how much you tell the client to triple what they think it will/should take they never do! In the end they all end up saying you were right I never realized it until I had to go thru it.

 

I sunk about 20 hours int trying to get the tomytec collection lines done up there for the wiki befor I realize it was going to be a monumental task and gave up.

 

Rich Kerr is the best I have seen out there to attempt this sort of documentation with his tomix site. Always a great resource!

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[disturbman]

Oh. This is probably the easiest forum I ever had to moderate. Great team, great users. I think so far, in a couple of years of moderating JNS, I only had to deal twice or thrice with a difficult situation.


Last variation on the proposed streamlining of the forum. Maybe, those who find it relevant could cast their votes by like this post. In case of a consensus, expect some changes around here.
I would be for trying one or two stickies in the JRail sub-forum (Painted trains) and see from there how it goes.
 

Platform 1: Birth & Death of a Forum
- Welcome (both sub forums merged)
- The Agora

--- Bug Report

Platform 2: Model Railroading
- Japanese N Gauge
- Japanese Other Gauges
- Tram, Trolley & Bus
- Non-Japanese

 

Platform 3: Products and retailers
- New Releases
- Suppliers
--- Hobby Shops, where are they?

Platform 4: (The Dark Side of) Modeling
- The Train Doktor

- DCC, Electrical & Automation

- Tools

Platform 5: Layouts, Clubs & Projects
- Personal Projects

- Scenery: Techniques & Inspirational Layouts
- Project Parties

- Clubs

Platform 6: Prototype
- Japan Rail, News, Announcements & General Discussions
- Japan Rail, Pictures & Videos
- Non-Japanese Rail

Platform 7: OT
- Travelling
- Other Hobbies
- Off Topic

Platform 8: Classifieds

Edited July 25, 2014 by disturbman

[Densha]

Looks really clean and more organized! :)

I would put clubs in platform 5 one above instead of being the last though, because project parties is sort of dead so is better off being the last.

 

I now feel embarrassed about my suggestions... :/

 

We still haven't heard most people's opinions though.....

[JR 500系]

Beautiful! Bus finally have their own sub-topic! Nice ~  :)

[disturbman]

Forum streamlined and "Joyful Train" sticky created. Let's see how everything goes from here.