Caught in the act

[scott]

Click on the picture of the Super Soya express at this link and look at the window in the front door of the train.

 

(I'd be there, too....)

[alpineaustralia]

I can so relate to him!

[Bernard]

I've done that many times on my daily comute on the LIRR, but isn't that a great spot to have!

[CaptOblivious]

Is that the driver waving at the photographer who took the picture of the photographer taking the picture? Or is he just pointing, as they do?

[Claude_Dreyfus]

Is that the driver waving at the photographer who took the picture of the photographer taking the picture?

 

Looks like he's waving... I've seen a couple of pictures taken here in the UK where the driver is making less friendly gestures to the photographer  ::)

 

Or is he just pointing, as they do?

 

I have a DVD of JRF locomotives, including some cab shots. I notice the drivers making this distinctive pointing gesture...why do they do this?

[CaptOblivious]

I have a DVD of JRF locomotives, including some cab shots. I notice the drivers making this distinctive pointing gesture...why do they do this?

 

It's a practice called "pointing-and-calling", and its done to increase safety. Pointing at a signal while reciting aloud what it means or says helps ensure that such signals are obeyed and to reduce mistakes in reading a signal, by forcing the driver to explicitly attend to them. We would do well in the US to adopt such a system…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_and_calling

[Tenorikuma]

I have a DVD of JRF locomotives, including some cab shots. I notice the drivers making this distinctive pointing gesture...why do they do this?

 

It's a practice called "pointing-and-calling", and its done to increase safety. Pointing at a signal while reciting aloud what it means or says helps ensure that such signals are obeyed and to reduce mistakes in reading a signal, by forcing the driver to explicitly attend to them. We would do well in the US to adopt such a system…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_and_calling

 

The guys who drive and do traffic control in Toyota's shipping lots do this too. I had the heck of a time finding an English term for it when I had to translate some of their training manuals.

[marknewton]

It's a practice called "pointing-and-calling", and its done to increase safety. Pointing at a signal while reciting aloud what it means or says helps ensure that such signals are obeyed and to reduce mistakes in reading a signal, by forcing the driver to explicitly attend to them...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_and_calling

 

Don, that's an interesting wiki entry, but as is often the case it doesn't tell the full story. I'd hazard a guess and say that the author isn't a railwayman, nor is he familiar with railway operations outside Japan.

 

"Pointing and calling", though not always known by that name, is widely used on railways throughout the world. As far as I'm aware, the practice originated early on in the UK, and like so much railway technology and operating practice, was exported from there.

 

On the railway I work for here in Australia, it is known as "calling the road", and has been practiced since well before the 1900s. In my time on loco-hauled trains with two-man crews, one of the crew members would call the road, and the other would repeat the call, to confirm what had been said. We also used hand gestures to indicate what the signal aspect was - very useful on steam or older diesels where the noise level could be fairly high in the cab.

 

I agree with your comment about US railroad operators 100% - in the absence of any other safeguards, it's a useful technique, particularly for one-man operation of commuter trains. It's so easy to forget what the last signal was showing and spad if they're a long way apart, or there is an intervening station stop. I've found that out the hard way... :-[

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

[CaptOblivious]

Mark,

 

The article did seem rather thin; that's an interesting point about "calling the road". And (working with cognitive psychologists as I do) I happen to know that rather quite a lot of research on this phenomenon has been done here in the US. Perhaps we both should update this article :D

[marknewton]

Don, that interests me greatly. If you can spare the time, I'd love to hear more about your work. I don't know a great deal about the human factors side of US railroading, but I'm always keen to learn more.

 

As for updating a wiki, I'm a complete novice. How exactly do you go about it?

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[marknewton]

The guys who drive and do traffic control in Toyota's shipping lots do this too. I had the heck of a time finding an English term for it when I had to translate some of their training manuals.

 

That's something I wouldn't have even considered - you tend to assume that your own industry's procedures aren't used in other industries. What do they do, and how? And what did you eventually come up with for a translation? You've got me intrigued.

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

[Tenorikuma]

The guys who drive and do traffic control in Toyota's shipping lots do this too. I had the heck of a time finding an English term for it when I had to translate some of their training manuals.

 

That's something I wouldn't have even considered - you tend to assume that your own industry's procedures aren't used in other industries. What do they do, and how? And what did you eventually come up with for a translation? You've got me intrigued.

Mark.

 

In the end I couldn't find an English term (I don't think that Wikipedia page existed then), so I called it something like confirmation using hand gestures and vocal repetition. Not too elegant now that I think about it, but no one else I asked knew what to call it either. :/

[CaptOblivious]

Don, that interests me greatly. If you can spare the time, I'd love to hear more about your work. I don't know a great deal about the human factors side of US railroading, but I'm always keen to learn more.

 

As for updating a wiki, I'm a complete novice. How exactly do you go about it?

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

 

Updating a Wiki is as easy as hitting the "edit" link, and typing away! (of course, you should adhere to various stylistic guidelines, but that can come later ;) )

 

Sadly, I'm having a hard time find those papers on hand gestures and attention. I'll ask some of my more psych-oriented friends tomorrow, because now I'm really interested in this issue.

[Guest ___]

Is that the driver waving at the photographer who took the picture of the photographer taking the picture?

 

Looks like he's waving... I've seen a couple of pictures taken here in the UK where the driver is making less friendly gestures to the photographer  ::)

 

Or is he just pointing, as they do?

 

I have a DVD of JRF locomotives, including some cab shots. I notice the drivers making this distinctive pointing gesture...why do they do this?

 

I've had hand waves from CSX crews and the middle finger from the NS crews. Almost like clockwork. CSX is great, they toss sealed water bottles out the window to me on hot summer days. While local switching they'll pose the engines, and give cab rides while switching. NS, they call the police even when parked on a public road throw bees nests at parked cars and once had an NS stop a train on the road from at 20mph, and chase me away swinging a brake hose.

 

But when it came to J-train shots, no matter where I'm shooting from, or how far away, it seems like the motorman is always staring dead center down my lens at me. Especially in Kyushu which must not have any railfans. I was shooting fifty feet away a train on the bridge over the river, at 450mm, and in every frame, the motorman's looking right down the lens even though I was standing about 150m away on the river bank. They just stare in Kyushu liek they have never seen a railfan before. I'm told they do that to everyone but some of my Japanese train buddies.

[scott]

I've had hand waves from CSX crews and the middle finger from the NS crews. Almost like clockwork. CSX is great, they toss sealed water bottles out the window to me on hot summer days. While local switching they'll pose the engines, and give cab rides while switching. NS, they call the police even when parked on a public road throw bees nests at parked cars and once had an NS stop a train on the road from at 20mph, and chase me away swinging a brake hose.

 

....all of which is ironic, since CSX, around here at least, seems to do almost no track maintenance, and the Amtrak service on their track is much slower and more delayed than on NS. Maybe NS could pass on some maintenace advice, and CSX could teach NS how to be vaguely human.

 

But when it came to J-train shots, no matter where I'm shooting from, or how far away, it seems like the motorman is always staring dead center down my lens at me. Especially in Kyushu which must not have any railfans. I was shooting fifty feet away a train on the bridge over the river, at 450mm, and in every frame, the motorman's looking right down the lens even though I was standing about 150m away on the river bank. They just stare in Kyushu liek they have never seen a railfan before. I'm told they do that to everyone but some of my Japanese train buddies.

 

They're "pointing and calling"--"hmm, railfan at 100m, maintain speed and look responsible."  ;)

[disturbman]

I've had hand waves from CSX crews and the middle finger from the NS crews. Almost like clockwork. CSX is great, they toss sealed water bottles out the window to me on hot summer days. While local switching they'll pose the engines, and give cab rides while switching. NS, they call the police even when parked on a public road throw bees nests at parked cars and once had an NS stop a train on the road from at 20mph, and chase me away swinging a brake hose.

 

Are they nuts??? In France usually the drivers horn/salute at spoters... I don't understand that type of behaviour.

[scott]

Are they nuts??? In France usually the drivers horn/salute at spoters... I don't understand that type of behaviour.

 

http://www.andysinger.com/bikesample8.html

[Guest ___]

I've had hand waves from CSX crews and the middle finger from the NS crews. Almost like clockwork. CSX is great, they toss sealed water bottles out the window to me on hot summer days. While local switching they'll pose the engines, and give cab rides while switching. NS, they call the police even when parked on a public road throw bees nests at parked cars and once had an NS stop a train on the road from at 20mph, and chase me away swinging a brake hose.

 

Are they nuts??? In France usually the drivers horn/salute at spoters... I don't understand that type of behaviour.

 

The Lawyers at NS feel that spotters are a liability. Company policy is to reprimand NS crews for failing to report spotters to the police.

[Guest ___]

I've had hand waves from CSX crews and the middle finger from the NS crews. Almost like clockwork. CSX is great, they toss sealed water bottles out the window to me on hot summer days. While local switching they'll pose the engines, and give cab rides while switching. NS, they call the police even when parked on a public road throw bees nests at parked cars and once had an NS stop a train on the road from at 20mph, and chase me away swinging a brake hose.

 

....all of which is ironic, since CSX, around here at least, seems to do almost no track maintenance, and the Amtrak service on their track is much slower and more delayed than on NS. Maybe NS could pass on some maintenace advice, and CSX could teach NS how to be vaguely human.

 

Sadly, no matter where I am along the Capital, Metropolitan or Cumberland subs, not a single stretch of track is not out of service for MOW or signaling work in any given day. It drives me nuts because traffic is held for an hour at a time especially along the Old Main Line and Metro Sub between Georgetown and Lander Rd. There is so much MOW work between DC an Cumberland that I have to wonder when they make time to move freight.