Mountain Layout Project

[macdon]

Mardon,

 

Now you just need to add the twisty roadway for a tomytec buss full of terrified tourists!

 

Jeff

 

I cant seem to plan that roadway at the moment - much less making it a moving bus road. How about a point-to-point bus system instead? Hehe!

 

Mardon

[cteno4]

You can do a pretty tight loop back (even to the same wire) with them. I think it was like 2-2.5" radius I got it down to with the faller bus. Could hide part of the loopback in a little tunnel. Be pretty cool with the bus going up and down the same road.

 

Or do a bus turntable at one end! Now that would be cool to automate.

 

Just keeping those gears turning I always hear in your post and emails!

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff

Edited January 25, 2014 by cteno4

[macdon]

You can do a pretty tight loop back (even to the same wire) with them. I think it was like 2-2.5" radius I got it down to with the faller bus. Could hide part of the loopback in a little tunnel. Be pretty cool with the bus going up and down the same road.

 

Or do a bus turntable at one end! Now that would be cool to automate.

 

Just keeping those gears turning I always hear in your post and emails!

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff

 

I may have found a path, but its gonna be tight.

Thou I remember failing on my moving bus experiment months ago with the decal/sintra roadway - sometimes it would follow the wire and sometimes it doesnt.

I can see it now..........that tourist bus of yours would be careening down the mountain!  :laughing6:

 

Mardon

[cteno4]

Mardon,

 

Did you embed the wire into the sintra? Did you try a few different wires? Some don't attract the steering magnet as well as others. Some music wires do well.

 

The faller wire worked under 040 styrene and thin chipboard.

 

Yes we want to see some spectacular tourist bus plunges! Right onto a track and then hit by a tram!

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

Edited January 26, 2014 by cteno4

[macdon]

Mardon,

 

Did you embed the wire into the sintra? Did you try a few different wires? Some don't attract the steering magnet as well as others. Some music wires do well.

 

The faller wire worked under 040 styrene and thin chipboard.

 

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

 

Yes, embedded it. There were a lot of deep cuts too so decal/sintra roadbed had pot holes too    Thick and thin wires alternatively used.  It just wasnt running consistently - probably due to the GI wire I used, so placed the bus in the back burner for now.

 

Reading on some moving bus threads, I believe I saw Ken's post regarding the Tomytec moving bus roadway having some texture (?) for better grip on inclines? If so, I may ultimately look into using the stock roadways for this layout - if ever.

 

 

Please verify if my understanding of the moving bus road dimensions is correct..........

 

C-001  C66-30-RO 

 

If 66 is the radius, then 66mm x 2 + 37mm to get the total diameter.  Since I think Tomytec gives the measurement on the center of the roadway, then we have to add a whole road width (37mm) to get the total outer diameter

 

So, C-001 C66-30-RO = 169mm or roughly 6-5/8" diameter

 

C-002  C-103-30-RO = 243mm or roughly 9 1/2" diameter

 

Did I get the above right?

 

 

Yes we want to see some spectacular tourist bus plunges! Right onto a track and then hit by a tram!

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

 

:BangHead:

 

 

 

Mardon

 

[kvp]

You have to add half the total width to get the outer and substract half to get the inner radiuses. Otherwise the tomytec roads are exactly the same dimension as the tomytec paved tram tracks just also avilable in smaller radius versions. C66 is the next smaller step from the c103 of the smallest tram radius.

[cteno4]

Mardon,

 

I would look for a wire that works well then experiment. i found i could do a lot more tricky stuff with the faller bus than they said you could in the instructions. I found i could mould a curve that made a more normal looking right angle turn than doing the smooth radius. took some fiddling but it was quite fun to see what you could get it to do. its getting a wire that likes magnets well, high iron content. most stainless stuff will not work well at all. i think one chap found that a cheap floral wire worked well as it was a very simple steel (that would corrode if around moisture eventually) because the stuff would be tossed fast so no need to make it corrosion proof.

 

the bus in this video seems to take a pretty good angles. also great to pretty much have a one lane road way (just barely enough for 2 cars maybe to pass) and have the bus going down the middle. you can loop back to the same wire just have it come back to the Y and stop the return piece about a quarter inch shy. that way when coming into the Y it takes the continuous side and then just jumps back onto the base of the Y over the gap when returning.

 

if you can find the right wire then just take some 020 styrene or thin chipboard and mock up your roads by cutting them out and seeing what you can get away with. dont have to worry about markings on the road way in this style much. maybe just edge lane markers that you could do with the 0.5mm nail pin tape. maybe spray the road in a matte gray that will make a rougher surface for traction. anyhow seems right up your fiddling/imagination alley!

 

cheers,

 

jeff

 

[macdon]

You have to add half the total width to get the outer and substract half to get the inner radiuses. Otherwise the tomytec roads are exactly the same dimension as the tomytec paved tram tracks just also avilable in smaller radius versions. C66 is the next smaller step from the c103 of the smallest tram radius.

 

Im afraid I dont have any Tomix wide tram tracks either. 

 

But I did make a pattern of both C-66 and C-103 in 1mm card

 

 

I tried to make a simple layout plan of having the bus service both mountains with almost no gutting of foam. Path of less resistance.

 

 

The pic below where the bus is on would need to be sloped down right under the bridge. No worries as the path below it is pure foam - no train tracks below it.

Right after the bridge, the roadway would need to go up to clear 2 train tracks below it - then curving right on the plateau of the right mountain.

It then crosses to the left mountain alongside the railroad bridge to the left mountain then starting on its cycle again.

 

 

Would the Tomytec bus roadway allow small degrees of movement just like with connecting train tracks? My cardboard pattern doesnt exactly meet up perfectly.

 

Mardon

Edited January 27, 2014 by macdon

[cteno4]

Mardon,

 

Very cool! I think the problem with trying to use the tomytec road will be it segmenting too much in the vertical direction. It wants to be flat, not designed to hinge vertically. Plus I think the busses will have trouble with the vertical kinks.

 

If you can just find wire that works you can just do your own road so much smoother in the vertical changes and a whole lot cheaper to boot! Plus it can be totally free form to match your mountain just right.

 

Jeff

Edited January 27, 2014 by cteno4

[kvp]

The tomytec road will flex the same amount as the tram tracks, so with transitons it would be ok. The buses can't really go up on anything too steep either. You can even cut the parts, just cut the middle part out and glue the two ends together, it's much easier than with tracks. Using the tomytec tracks has the benefit of always working correctly with the tomytec buses. Anything home made may or may not work as intended. Not to mention the cool bus stops and the speed control magnets.

[Vato]

Im afraid I dont have any Tomix wide tram tracks either. 

 

But I did make a pattern of both C-66 and C-103 in 1mm card

 

IMG_1585.jpg

 

I tried to make a simple layout plan of having the bus service both mountains with almost no gutting of foam. Path of less resistance.

 

IMG_1586.jpg

 

The pic below where the bus is on would need to be sloped down right under the bridge. No worries as the path below it is pure foam - no train tracks below it.

Right after the bridge, the roadway would need to go up to clear 2 train tracks below it - then curving right on the plateau of the right mountain.

It then crosses to the left mountain alongside the railroad bridge to the left mountain then starting on its cycle again.

 

IMG_1587.jpgIMG_1588.jpgIMG_1589.jpgIMG_1591.jpg

 

Would the Tomytec bus roadway allow small degrees of movement just like with connecting train tracks? My cardboard pattern doesnt exactly meet up perfectly.

 

Mardon

Try to use Faller road system... 

 

Faller Laser-Street Flexible street  

http://www.reynaulds.com/products/Faller/162131.aspx

[cteno4]

I would expect the tomytec busses to be able to do the same as the faller or better for performance and i was able to get the faller to do a lot of tricks with grades and turns and such. just takes some fiddling. the thing it did not like and i dont think it will like with the tomytec street plates is a kink in the vertical direction, it wants a smooth transition there. that was one way to get the steering knocked off the guide wire. also going to look funny to have a roadway all of a sudden do an abrupt change in angle up or down at a road joint. take a look at the angles and grades they did in that video.

 

doing you own magnets to stop/pause/speed change the bus is no real problem either, lots of folks have rolled their own with no problems to do these things. 

 

jeff

[macdon]

Had some time today so I took out the bus from hiding and did some experiments..........

 

First was using 1mm card (actually after measuring with a caliper it turned out to be 1.2mm). Placed thin wire, no go. Tried a thicker wire, no go. Magnet catches nothing. I doubled the thick wire, still nothing.  I embedded both wires a bit, it catches slightly but still goes haywire. No consistency whatsoever.

 

Embedding on 1.2mm card resulted to some areas being cut all the way thru, so I made a straight thru canal for the wires . Bus catches everything this time and doesnt move. Placed hockey tape, still no movement. 2nd tape, moves a bit but still stops. 3rd tape, started to move, followed a few inches then off. 4th tape turned out to be a lot better but it wasnt the way to go so I abandoned it.

From first to 4th tape, I tried both thin and thick wire - both had same results. I had a feeling its not the GI wire thickness coming into play but my laminated 1.2mm card as a road surface that should be changed.

 

I next tried 300gsm matt photo paper - the paper I used for printing out paper buildings. With both wires tried, paper is too thin and bus doesnt move. I tried 2 300gsm matt paper and laminated both with elmers white glue. Better performance now - follows the path but still stops occasionally and catches the wire, so bus stops.

 

I then tried the ordinary school beige colored folder, but laminated it with 1 300gsm matt paper - and it was the best result of the whole experiment. Not perfect as there are times is still went haywire, but it had more chances of success compared to the rest. 

I tried a 1" incline, but bus wanted to slide down so either it would stop or just just went to other directions and not the path.

 

 

Playing with the idea of a no incline roadway means a double back thru a long bridge. More possible with a custom DIY roadway I guess.

It may or may not work for the moving bus, but atleast there would be a static roadway I suppose.

These are merely ideas, nothing is engraved in stone so changes could still happen.  

 

 

Mardon

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Martijn Meerts]

Damn.. You get more done in a few days than I do in years =)

[macdon]

Damn.. You get more done in a few days than I do in years =)

 

Well, thats because I dont have a samurai armour on display which i'll be cleaning up on a daily basis hahahaha!

 

Mardon

[kvp]

I'll would say go with the tomix roadway. It's so thin, that you can bend it to almost any ramp you want. The difference with tram tracks could be that the road plates don't have two solid metal girders (rails) in them, so they are more flexible. Not as home made as steel wire and paper, but more reliable.

[macdon]

I'll would say go with the tomix roadway. It's so thin, that you can bend it to almost any ramp you want. The difference with tram tracks could be that the road plates don't have two solid metal girders (rails) in them, so they are more flexible. Not as home made as steel wire and paper, but more reliable.

 

You mean the Tomytec moving bus road plates, right?

Well, anything is possible so that is still another option. It didnt cost me anything to do the experiment, so I wouldnt mind learning anything new derived from that.

 

But arent those road plates thick at the side? I read somewhere that it is around 5mm thick, so how can they flex/bend?

 

Mardon

[kvp]

But arent those road plates thick at the side? I read somewhere that it is around 5mm thick, so how can they flex/bend?

They are the same as the tram plates. The plates are 5 mm thick, but the material is just around 1 mm and hollow with a few reinforcements. Here is a good picture of the underside:

http://sumidacrossing.org/OtherElements/TomytecBusSystem/files/c103-30-bus-underside-3066.jpg

(there is pretty much no material in it, so it's very easy to bend, twist or brake them if you are not careful)

[nickhp]

I found picture hanging wire at the local big box hardware store and it works even under 40 thou styrene. You might try that. Remember the wire has to be the right type (ferrous?).

[macdon]

Just exploring structure placements...........

 

[Vato]

Building's is Tomix?

Edited January 31, 2014 by vatato

[macdon]

Building's is Tomix?

 

Yup, the usual Tomytecs.

 

Mardon

[katoftw]

Building's is Tomix?

He has got a whole cupboard of spare ones ready to go for the next layout he creates. :laughing3:

[macdon]

He has got a whole cupboard of spare ones ready to go for the next layout he creates. :laughing3:

 

How I wish  :icon_tongue:

 

I actually stole most of them from my freight layout! 

 

I just love the look of traditional japanese architecture ............. and they look good with a bit of trees.......

 

 

Mardon

[cteno4]

Yeah the wire needs to be ferrous and not a stainless (those alloys are usually poor for magnets.) just takes some experimentation and once you find the right stuff it works great under 020 or 040 styrene it will be very simple to create your custom roadway and place the bus track where you want. Trying to twist and bend expensive bus track will not be fun. 020 styrene you can get super cheap (sign shops usually sell cheap in 4'x8' sheets and you can just cut it with scissors if you want to! Lets you get it just right instead of having to follow the bus plate curves.

 

Looking nice Mardon!

 

Jeff

Edited February 1, 2014 by cteno4