My layout - Plan done! Time to start (page 7)

[NJHA]

Ok. I promised some photos of my work so far, so here they are:

 

 

This is the start of the station elevation. I bought some really long screws (used for making drywall ceilings), cut them to the size i needed and then bolted them to the table.

 

After bolting the screws i got some metal and "built" a bridge. This gives extra support for the station board and distributes pressure. I hope that is enough to prevent serious warping.

 

Another shot of my idea.

 

And here is my starting mountain. The black line on the boards is the 60mm clearance level. I will have 2 tunnels one of them is at an higher level. 

 

Finally the net i bought. I hope a mountain form will emerge from this.

[ozman2009]

That wire mesh used to be called chicken wire here in Australia - it was used to make chicken pens. What it's called these days I don't know...

[JR 500系]

Looking very nice! Good idea to use the screws as support and waiting to see how the tunnel will turn out with different gradients!

 

 

That wire mesh used to be called chicken wire here in Australia - it was used to make chicken pens. What it's called these days I don't know...

 

We call them chicken wire too. Widely used in the construction industry, especially for holding aggregates when doing concrete pumping...

[Densha]

I want to warn you about the wood you are using for the bridge. I have used that stuff previously on my layout and it warped terribly after a while. Even under no pressure it just warps because of temperature and humidity. You don't want to know what it looks like a year later or so under pressure. Better use some quality plywood, not that expensive for such a relatively small piece. Maybe you can also use a thinner board if you use plywood. It looks a bit too thick to me now as well.

[macdon]

Is there any other name for chicken wire?  Same thing we call it this side of the world.......

 

I've never used it thou as it seems a burden to keep it to hold its shape........either that or the fear of cut wire poking holes or bruising my hand. Work gloves might be in order.

Seeing that blue foam that you cut and used for piers could actually be of use making the mountain. Are there tracks running inside the mountain or is it just a mass for scenery?  If tracks, would it be just on the surface or elevated?

 

Having tracks running inside a mountain must have no obstruction, so take the tracks out of the equation by building a tunnel for it made out of cardboard, foam, etc. Place your cut foam all around the cardboard tunnel - just put one on top of the other and when the glue dries you can carve/shape it to any shape you desire.

 

 

In my case above, I wanted it as a shell only and since we have a small fiberglass outfit, I had my workers fiberglass it.

Of course, you dont need it to be done this way and I think plaster cloth could take the place of fiberglass. Having a shell is only one option and I decided to have this for easy removal or have a large space behind it for my hand to clean tracks or do maintenance.

The downside to my fiberglass shell is that I have to bore holes with a drill if I want to add trees :D  With foam, just poke it down.

 

Mardon

 

 

 

 

[macdon]

I couldnt add more pics to my post above, so apologies for taking another in your thread.........

 

 

You can still go ahead with your chicken wire if you're more comfortable with it. If your mountain will be located either at the end or corner end of your layout you might need a plywood backing profile to hold the chicken wire to shape.

Since you're using chicken wire, I just dont know if you still want this removable for cleaning and maintenance. So if you'll be using wood at the back, dont forget to cut a doorway so your hand could get in from behind.

 

Mardon

 

 

[cteno4]

I did a lot of chicken wire forms at 1:1 scale to prototype fake rocks for the aquarium years back using fiber reinforced concrete. If you use a few layers of chicken wire (yep the age old name here it make chicken coops) that is bent up some it can make a very rigid structure, but on smaller pieces it can be hard to work.

 

We would use the chicken wire to just make the form then quick layer of newspaper plaster paper to make a shell, then blast it with the FRC and gesture the outside of the FRC with latex moulds.

 

Jeff

[NJHA]

I want to warn you about the wood you are using for the bridge. I have used that stuff previously on my layout and it warped terribly after a while. Even under no pressure it just warps because of temperature and humidity. You don't want to know what it looks like a year later or so under pressure. Better use some quality plywood, not that expensive for such a relatively small piece. Maybe you can also use a thinner board if you use plywood. It looks a bit too thick to me now as well.

The "wood" is actually wood agglomerate 10 mm thick and yes, it is known to be "temperamental" with moisture, temperature and bad support. It is there as an experience since the room is not particularly wet or with high moisture levels. But if it starts to warp badly, replacing it with other material is just a matter of a few minutes operation. 

Winter is coming and winters in my area are quite rainy so the board will really be put to the test. If it fails... well i can always "recycle" it on the fireplace :)

 

I will keep it under surveillance and ready to take action if needed, thanks for the warning.

[NJHA]

That wire mesh used to be called chicken wire here in Australia - it was used to make chicken pens. What it's called these days I don't know...

Around here it has a lot of different names, chicken wire being one of them. I just wasn't sure if you guys knew it by that name also :) 

[NJHA]

 

I've never used it thou as it seems a burden to keep it to hold its shape........either that or the fear of cut wire poking holes or bruising my hand. Work gloves might be in order.

Seeing that blue foam that you cut and used for piers could actually be of use making the mountain. Are there tracks running inside the mountain or is it just a mass for scenery?  If tracks, would it be just on the surface or elevated?

 

Having tracks running inside a mountain must have no obstruction, so take the tracks out of the equation by building a tunnel for it made out of cardboard, foam, etc. Place your cut foam all around the cardboard tunnel - just put one on top of the other and when the glue dries you can carve/shape it to any shape you desire.

 

 

Mardon

This chicken wire can be bent and keep its shape rather well. I don't know if it will continue to keep its shape with the added weight of the plaster cloth, that i will have to try and see if it works or not. Working gloves for me are a must, especially with sharp tools since i always tend to get my hands cut or bruised (sometimes due to lack of concern with my own security, others by not using proper tools.)

 

I still have 1 sheet of blue foam, just in case my idea doesn't work, so i can follow the "glue layers and carve" option if needed.

As for the tracks they run inside the mountain at 2 different levels. Forward tracks run inside the mountain at ground level, backward tracks run starting at +20mm height and leaving the tunnel at +45mm height. Constructing the tunnel is considered. The picture doesn't show it properly but the middle "piers" have 2 heights. I will try to take a closer picture soon.

[Martijn Meerts]

I tend to use chicken wire and plaster as well, I never managed to get decent results with foam for some reason.

 

Actually, what I use isn't actually chicken wire, but more like fly wire I guess. The grid spacing is much smaller, and it's actually quite a bit stiffer, so it's not that easy to get detail in there. I do the detail either by adding additional mesh pieces, pre-cast plaster rock faces and/or newspapers wads and similar.

[NJHA]

I couldnt add more pics to my post above, so apologies for taking another in your thread.........

 

You can still go ahead with your chicken wire if you're more comfortable with it. If your mountain will be located either at the end or corner end of your layout you might need a plywood backing profile to hold the chicken wire to shape.

Since you're using chicken wire, I just dont know if you still want this removable for cleaning and maintenance. So if you'll be using wood at the back, dont forget to cut a doorway so your hand could get in from behind.

No need to apologize Mardon, the pictures help a great deal. 

 

I don't see this as my thread. It is a space where I present my ongoing project and ideas and collect others ideas and feedback. For me this is an important learning tool, so i appreciate all the pictures,drawings,warnings, and every other contribution placed here :)

 

And thanks for the doorway tip! I wasn't thinking about that!

[NJHA]

I tend to use chicken wire and plaster as well, I never managed to get decent results with foam for some reason.

 

Actually, what I use isn't actually chicken wire, but more like fly wire I guess. The grid spacing is much smaller, and it's actually quite a bit stiffer, so it's not that easy to get detail in there. I do the detail either by adding additional mesh pieces, pre-cast plaster rock faces and/or newspapers wads and similar.

I saw the fly wire also and got the same impression, too stiff to make it work properly (not to mention i was asked 40€/m for inox fly wire). 

With chicken wire and some pliers i can make the wires go into the positions i want then (hopefully). 

This is going to be fun, and i expect to have some help from my daughter. I know she will love working with plaster. Lets just hope she doesn't mess her cloths or else my wife will set me on fire! 

[macdon]

I tend to use chicken wire and plaster as well, I never managed to get decent results with foam for some reason.

 

Actually, what I use isn't actually chicken wire, but more like fly wire I guess. The grid spacing is much smaller, and it's actually quite a bit stiffer, so it's not that easy to get detail in there. I do the detail either by adding additional mesh pieces, pre-cast plaster rock faces and/or newspapers wads and similar.

 

Thats very common here and its simply called "screen". All residential dwellings (non-buildings) have this to keep flys, mosquitos, bugs, etc. from entering your home. Tropical countries have a lot of bugs. :D

 

Mardon

[macdon]

One of the things that I deliberated on before was utilizing my half mountain top off while having tracks also on the removable top. Removing the section of the tracks on top of the mountain was not a consideration ( too lazy to do that ). The mountain was built with an overhang at the back with 1" x 1" wooden post to hold the mountain upright. Cleaning would be done at the back with your hand between the wooden posts. Darn thing was 7' long. Sure, it was fun to see the tram going up the mountain to reach Osaka Castle, but was a bear when it was time to clean tracks under it.

 

Garbage man was happy to get it thou ............. he said his son would be happy placing his plastic soldiers on top of it :D

 

Mardon

[Mudkip Orange]

Thats very common here and its simply called "screen". All residential dwellings (non-buildings) have this to keep flys, mosquitos, bugs, etc. from entering your home. Tropical countries have a lot of bugs. :D

 

Mardon

 

Wait, the Dutch don't have screens? All those polders and other low-lying areas don't have mosquitoes?

[yakumo381]

This chicken wire can be bent and keep its shape rather well. I don't know if it will continue to keep its shape with the added weight of the plaster cloth, that i will have to try and see if it works or not. Working gloves for me are a must, especially with sharp tools since i always tend to get my hands cut or bruised (sometimes due to lack of concern with my own security, others by not using proper tools.)

 

I still have 1 sheet of blue foam, just in case my idea doesn't work, so i can follow the "glue layers and carve" option if needed.

As for the tracks they run inside the mountain at 2 different levels. Forward tracks run inside the mountain at ground level, backward tracks run starting at +20mm height and leaving the tunnel at +45mm height. Constructing the tunnel is considered. The picture doesn't show it properly but the middle "piers" have 2 heights. I will try to take a closer picture soon.

I have always used chicken wire (its not just for chickens!) - you just need to make sure it is well supported. I find the cardboard rolls from inside kitchen towels and loo rolls work. If you then put papiemache over the top (just glued on strips of newspaper in random directions) you get a rigid but very light shell.

[NJHA]

Hi. Today I had some free time so i dedicated myself to the layout. 

 

First I setup the chicken wire just to find out that i wasn't being able to bent it the way i wanted. It was just a flat with a few curves surface. 

Then i thought: why don't i cut it, bend it the way i want and then patch it? So i did it! 

Here is the cut, looking up. 

 

Closing in...

 

And here is the patch. 

 

After applying the patch i decided to apply a few others... i bent and twisted a few patches in order to make a few bumps, slopes and even a cave :)

 

Then it was time to get messy... nothing better to save things than a garbage bag opened up. Also it allows for a better perspective on what the mountain looks like. The large rock is just to make the chicken wire stay still. 

 

And this is my poor mountain after a few rounds of "home made" plaster cloth. This will take a few days to dry up I believe. See my "cave"? Still a lot of work to do there. 

By the way... the valley will have a river flowing and ending on a lake at the mountain bottom.

 

And a peek at the tunnel entrances. I am debating on how am I going to do the entrances visually. The left side entrance is at an higher level than the right side. Maybe i can cut a bit of blue foam isolation board and design a tunnel entrance. Something to study. 

Don't pay attention to all the blue foam around. It is just there to make sure the shell doesn't go into the tunnels clearance space with the weight of the plaster cloth.

 

Oh, and i almost forget! Working gloves are mandatory when working with chicken wire. Those wires can bruise you very easy. For the plaster cloth bit i used latex gloves.

[cteno4]

Wow lots of progress, great!

 

Jeff

[ozman2009]

My word, you have been busy! Getting results too. Please let us know how long the plaster cloth takes to dry.

[Martijn Meerts]

Thats very common here and its simply called "screen". All residential dwellings (non-buildings) have this to keep flys, mosquitos, bugs, etc. from entering your home. Tropical countries have a lot of bugs. :D

 

Mardon

 

It's not the type of screen you put in front of the door or windows or drape over your bed to keep bugs out, it's much stiffer stuff. It's basically exactly the same as chicken wire, just with smaller grid spacing, and square instead of hex.

[NJHA]

Hi guys 

 

It has been a while since i didn't update on my little project. 

 

Replying to ozman2009 the plaster takes about 3 days to dry up, but moisture levels in Portugal were high since it was a rainy week.  

After it dried it seemed to me as too fragile (due to the "cloth" used), so i did a second coat from the outside and then turn it and also did a coat on the inside. And then painted it on browns and greens.

 

And then... I took a deep long look at the mountain and decided to start over ! :laughing6: 

 

Reason? Simple, the mountain wasn't a mountain at all, was more of a small hill. So i re-did everything and build a mountain that is around 50cm tall. Unfortunately i though i had taken pictures, but i didn't :angry6:  so no pictures of that process. 

 

These last weeks i have been working on making some rocks since i have a large mountain wall that is looking to smooth. I tried several methods, even set up a few rock molds and made some rocks out of plaster but in the end I sent them all to the garbage, since i didn't like the effect, was looking too artificial.

Now i am trying with polyurethane foam, hopefully i will get a surface i can carve (learning a few things about foam carving). 

Lets see how it goes. 

[NJHA]

Hi guys 

 

So, what's up? Well i found out that i did took photos they were just still on the camera. 

My mountain is progressing steadily doing the greenery now. 

 

Without more delays were goes: 

 

This was the starting point, after all was coated with my very own plaster "cloth"

 

Then i started to look at the front face, and decided i wanted a rocky face. I tried several homemade rocks, but they just didn't look ok to me, so i decided to go on with drastic measures: polyurethane foam!

 

Then i just carved the foam and applied a first coating of plaster:

 

And since it was still a bit "foamy" looking i gave it a second and third coatings:

After i painted it using acrylic washes. Started with plain black, then added raw umber, then yellow ocher, and finally silver/white. I used the yellow ocher on the mountain and then my wife came in and said: " I hate the mountain! that brown looks like s***." So, after a bit of research i made a batch of "goop" and applied it overall. You can see the goop on the foreground, waiting to be "painted".

 

 

Finally, today i started on the greenery. This is one of the things i am using, natural moss:

 

It is starting to look ok now :) Full pictures later :)

[Bernard]

Very nice work!! I tried using the foam in a can and made a big mistake.....I applied it on too thick and it took forever for the center of it to cure.

[NJHA]

Aside from the mess the canned foam is easy to use.

I use a spray bottle with water and spray the foam just after i apply it. This way the curing process is faster, although the foam doesn't expand as much and becomes a bit harder than usual. Too much water and the foam will nearly not expand at all.

 

This foam got sprayed with water and about 30 minutes to 1h was completely dry and ready to be cut.