My layout - Plan done! Time to start (page 7)

[NJHA]

Larger shops don't do it, that's almost sure. But on smaller shops its just a matter of asking, you never know unless you ask. 

[katoftw]

At the start variation sets are cheaper.  But once you stop requiring things like switches and crossings, then buying seperately is the way to go otherwise you'll have large amount of leftovers.

 

After getting the M1, V4, V5, V6 sets, I started purchasing seperately.  You'll always need more S248s that what ever these sets provide.  And alot of turnouts are linked together, only requiring 1 switch and a 3way cable.

 

But it is all a bit of mix and match.  Everyone's situations are different, and what works for one, wont for the other.

Edited February 8, 2014 by katoftw

[NJHA]

You'll always need more S248s that what ever these sets provide.   

That is true. My small layout will require 42 of those S248. The V6 set has only 4, so 38 more to go.

 

Now i am debating here at home around the train. My wife and kids like the shinkansen (the E2 and E3 ), but i am not sure if they will be ok with the 315 mm radius.  Ideas? 

[katoftw]

R315mm is the minimum for most Kato Shinkansens. Those that own a E2 or E3 can confirm.

 

My 500 for example, once the throttle is near the 2 o'clock position will lift the inner wheels.  But it is geared for speed, so that is still pretty fast.  Also goes through #4 turnout for a siding at full speed without issues.

Edited February 9, 2014 by katoftw

[NJHA]

On my track plan all outer curves are 348mm, all inner curves are 315mm, so i guess it will work.  

As for the turnouts they will all be #6 turnouts.

I would have done it 348/391 but unfortunately kato doesn't make the 391mm curve with 45º angle, only with 30 or 15º. Although i could manage to use those, the amount of extra track would make the price go up. I really can't understand why kato does this, maybe they want to sell the double track instead.

[katoftw]

couldn't you use 3 x 15 degree curves to get you your desired 45 degrees?

 

do you have a updated track plan since last version?

Edited February 12, 2014 by katoftw

[NJHA]

Hi. 

 

I can use 15º curves but it's 3 curves to do what 1 does. In the end it makes for a more expensive track plan and with DCC makes for 3 more sets of wires. 

But i am still debating over the shinkansen. 

 

As for the updated track plan, I have redone the V4_final one, just to eliminate the small track bits, so no noticeable changes. I am now waiting for the track to build the outer loop and see how well it works. 

[kvp]

 

and with DCC makes for 3 more sets of wires

Theoretically, with DCC you don't have to route a feeder wire to every piece of track, so you can just put together the 3 pieces and then consider it as one. It's price is a bit higher than the single piece version, that's true, but it doesn't cost 3 times as much.

[NJHA]

Hi. This project is going to suffer a small change. 

The initial project was going to be near a fireplace so i started to worry about the heat and also the ash (the fireplace is closed but has heat ventilation, so some dust is always on the air). 

I talked with the "house manager" (aka my wife) and we decided to relocate my project on the guest room :) 

 

So now i have to redo my layout. 

I still get a corner wall, but this time i have almost 280cm of free wall on one side and 130cm on the other. I could extend this 130cm but then i would go under a window and it would become difficult to access it.

 

Still considering on what i am going to do with this new space. I am starting to like the trams, so i may consider a city layout, opposed to my initial city + freight + country layout. 

Going to the drawing board... again.

[cteno4]

Ha more room! guests will love it something to play with before they go to bed!

 

how about just making the layout bit under the window narrow so that you can get to the window easily and balloon out on the other side so you can have a loop back.

 

fun thing with japanese layouts is you can do a lot in a smaller space and cram stuff closer to things than in other places.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[katoftw]

more space.  only good things to come.  that is enough space to do a urban and rural layout all in one.

[NJHA]

Hehe. 

 

I was examining the room  and i end up noticing that my initial idea has some flaws (decoration and operational wise).

The 280cm wall ends on a door (the wall has really near 370cm, the door is 75cm wide). Assuming a 90cm wide baseboard, it is a strange sight, and is a bit awkward to get inside the room due to the board edges.

So i have to use another wall, but this is great because i can extend the baseboard to near 300cm without many issues and if I push it a bit (and risking getting the "house manager" mad ) i can extend to a maximum of 450cm! A train empire!

 

On a "get real" basis, i will probably extend the baseboard a bit and get an L shapped board around 280 to 300cm on the long side and 130cm on the short side. 

 

Still a lot to consider and a lot of debate with my lovely wife over the final layout.  

[katoftw]

i'm so confused with all those dimensions.  draw us a dodgy pic with the dimensions please.

[Mudkip Orange]

Still a lot to consider and a lot of debate with my lovely wife over the final layout.  

 

Here's what you do.

 

Buy her and her best friend a ticket to somewhere they like that you don't. Probably some like botanical gardens or something.

 

Then, while she's gone, build a crappy layout that takes up all the space you could dream of plus an additional 20%. Doesn't have to be final... just slap together a tabletop with some flex track so it looks like it's permanent.

 

When she gets home and complains, turn the conversation around about how she hasn't been supportive of your hobbies, say that at least you're not out playing amateur rugby or street racing or something else that would take you out of the house, she should be thankful that you want to stay.

 

Then when all is said and done, back off and agree that even though it will take a ton of effort to reduce the layout size (not really, you never built this one to last) you're willing to do it because you love her, it will be "only" 400cm and you will paint the outside fascia so it looks aesthetically appealing.

 

Problem solved.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Mudkip Orange

[NJHA]

Katofw: working on a drawing. Posting it soon.

 

Mudkip: Man, this my wife,not the ogre under the bridge, it is ok to talk with her, she will not bite my head off :)

 

We already discussed the issue, and she agrees with me. My first option is not visually good and presents an obstacle entering the room. 

So now my job is to come up with a solution that works for me while at the same time functional and visually ok. 

[kvp]

My only advice would be to make a layout that is movable, so instead of optimizing for the room, design it so that it will fit into the avilable space, but can be relocated if needed. This also allows a bit of layout creep, when you slowly extend a layout over time.

[cteno4]

Yes, wise advice, make it in sections that are easily movable (ie less than 6 ft long) so you don't have to trash it if you move! Little extra wire around the section joints so they can be cut and rejoined. You can cut and resolder track at joints as well. Murphy's law states if you build a totally built in layout about the time you are 75% done you will have to move!

 

Jeff

Edited April 5, 2014 by cteno4

[tossedman]

Here's what you do.

 

..... say that at least you're not out playing amateur rugby.....

 

Problem solved.

Nothing wrong with playing rugby. Played it for years myself, 20 some odd years as an adult. Now what were we talking about again? 

Edited April 6, 2014 by tossedman

[NJHA]

Hi there. 

 

Ok, i had some free time to draw up a doggy pic as katoftw called it. 

 

Hope you get the idea. 

The space constraints more or less dictate the layout format. 

Taking Jeff's idea on the narrow bit under the window. I've made some measurements with my wife (she has shorter arm length) and i believe 30cm gap is doable to open the windows safely. Above that i will risk getting problems with track/scenario. 

 

The overall height has to be below 80cm in most areas and 70cm in one of the window sides (blinds shutter control is there). 

 

question: is 70cm height to low to work/operate the layout?

 

Here goes my wonderful drawing :)

 

 

[Bernard]

Hi NJHA

As far as height here is some thoughts:

1) The higher the layout, the shorter your reach, therefore the narrower the layout needs to be.
2) The closer the layout is to eye level, the better your railfan's view is (i.e. it looks more prototypical when it is closer to eye level).

 

From what I understand, standard for N-trak modules are set at 40" (or 101.6cm).....my layout is at 48" (or 122cm)

The one thing about having your layout at 70cm (27") is you'll be bending over to work on the layout which can hurt your back.....also, think about wiring your layout from underneath.....is 70cm going to be enough for you to fit under the layout to do your wiring?

 

One idea I recommend, get adjustable levelers to put on the end of your bench work legs....it will prevent your legs to wobble.

[kvp]

70 cm is good if it's meant to be built and run sitting down. (this is my favourite way) For wiring, i would use circuit boxes, that can be detached and worked on without crawling under anything and only route the wires under the layout with easy to connect plugs between them and the circuit boxes. The layout on picture above can be built with 3 or 4 modules, two large ones and one or two narrow ones. That would also mean a good number of legs with simple rectangular modules (or tables).

[NJHA]

Hi 

 

About the 70cm height. 

Unfortunately there is no way around it. If above 80cm, the table will be in front of the window, at that isn't a pretty sight. Remember, this will be a guest room. I want the guests to be able to open the window and look outside without a baseboard in their way.

Most of the time i will operate the trains seated, i too believe its the best way to move the action to eye level.

As for wiring, i think i will go the circuit box way. After all i want something that is easy to plug in/out in case i need to relocate the modules.

 

Now... where on this layout can i put a station/stations? The long 30cm part is a possibility, but that will limit the amount of lines i can stage.

I was also considering a station on each of the sides, thus staging a two city railroad. But i am not really sure on the station size, i think they may be rather small for my longest trains (8 cars). 

 

Ideas anyone? I need to come up with a new plan, but i am out of ideas for now. 

[kvp]

Now... where on this layout can i put a station/stations? The long 30cm part is a possibility, but that will limit the amount of lines i can stage. I was also considering a station on each of the sides, thus staging a two city railroad. But i am not really sure on the station size, i think they may be rather small for my longest trains (8 cars).

 

If you plan to have continous running, then you will need at least two loops (ballon tracks). 8 car trains with 20 meter cars need around 120 cm of space. This means you can have a terminal station in one of the loops and a yard in the other. Also, many japanese stations are on curves. The 30 cm part can be used for a station without storage tracks. (for example 4 tracks, 2 in each direction) You can make the two turning loops double tracked and have a 4 track mainline at the narrow section. You can select and combine any of these ideas into a layout that works for you.

 

Personally if i had this much space i would build all of it, like an industrial area with a (passenger and/or freight) yard and a passenger station on the loop around it. Then a simple stop without turnouts on the narrow part and a terminal station on the other end with an elevated loop around it. The yard and the terminal station could connect to both (up and down) directions in a Y configuration and the loop station could have passing tracks. Turnouts would be located to be entirely on the two large modules with 2 standard tracks passing to the narrow modules, so you could always remove or extend the middle part(s). The yard could be used for a shunting puzzle too, while operation could take place between the 3 passenger stations with service and/or freight movement mixed between them. In analog mode, the whole layout could be wired as single controller/single loop or into multiple blocks so you could have multiple trains running at the same time.

Edited April 23, 2014 by kvp

[cteno4]

njha,

 

i think this can give you a nice little layout. 80cm sitting is good. like kvp said 4 modules would be perfect, two ends and connector in two pieces. this way you can always move it if needed. keep it so it can easily be broken apart and i think you will find it does not have to be taken out. but build it as a whole and murphy will make you have to cut it up! also if you make the modules strudy and just use legs that attach to the modules you could easily take the whole thing out if you ever wanted to do a show or something with it elsewhere. ikea has great legs for this http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/70217973/ 

 

also modular means for wiring and such you can just flip the modules over or on end while building track work and such and much much easier than trying to do it under a fixed layout table. even scenery that gets messy you can just move modules out to your garage or back yard or other mess making spot instead of in the guest room that might not make OHMBO unhappy. expansion tracks are great to cover the gaps if you can get the gaps in nice straight sections (expansion tracks dont like to be right next to curves)

 

dog bone is what you will have with the two balloons at the ends. you might i one you could spiral up and down in and out of a mountain side or something. have the very back outside loop start going up along the back side of the connector and do maybe one loop up higher and then two down or just loop back down once in and out of a mountain. inside loop could just go thru the base of the mountain. might be a way to add some fun to the overall layout, but would take a bit of fiddling and some mountain making on one end.

 

i think kvp is right on one end pack in a lot of track with industrial, station, yard, and then have the other end be more scenic with a town and or rural or mountain etc. maybe one end of the industrial/station end could have taller buildings and a back drop like the city area builds up from there.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[NJHA]

:)

 

A lot of good ideas here, more than enough to "start the engines"

 

As for the legs i think i prefer these: http://www.ikea.com/pt/pt/catalog/products/10264302/ since they are height adjustable. They support less weight but the rated 25kg seems to me more than enough.

As for the modules, it is also my idea to do it like that and i may even use more than just 4 modules, it will depend on the track plan.

 

As for going analog... no. This is going to be digital. I have only 2 trains, i am starting now with N scale and this is a rather long layout, it is easier to start digital, even with the wiring. I already have a roco command station and throttle to start. At a later stage i am considering developing arduino based command station and throttles . 

 

All i need now is : 

 

1 - A track plan. 

2 - Free time.

3- Money   :)