Analog Layout Control

[Vato]

I have small tram layout, based on the KATO UNITRAM and want to automated, any advice?

Edited January 2, 2014 by vatato

[kvp]

You need a way to know the position of the trains and a way to control the power to the trams. There are many solutions for this, but it all depends on your knowledge. If you know how to program, then you can use an arduino board. If you don't want to, then you can use a computer and interface electronics. If you like electromechanical systems, then you can use relays and timers.

 

For detecting the trams, you can use block occupancy detection or train sensors. For train sensors, you can use contact sensor based, magnetic or optical sensors. I don't know if kato makes ready to use train sensors, but tomix makes 3 types of contact sensors and they provide TTL level open collector digital output, so very easy to integrate with digital control circuits. Is there a kato version? If yes, how to integrate it into the tram track? If no, then what is the best way to detect trains on kato track?

 

Imho, first you should decide on a way to know the location of your trams, then it will be possible to find a solution that can handle the sensors. For track power, you can use dcc or analog dcc, where the dcc decoders are actually powering the tracks. If you choose the arduino as the main computer, then there are motor driver circuits that can be controlled by the arduino.

[Vato]

I don't like Arduino board. prefer to use electromechanical system, but have no idea how to start and what to do

[cteno4]

vatato,

 

exactly what automation do you want? that will help to see what things you will need to think about.

 

even an electromechanical system will require programming of some sort. either a custom chip to control things or other micro boards like pic to control the relays. or will need a computer a/d interface to control relays and such and take in sensor data and then brew your own control program to work thru the a/d board. arduino board is actually simpler than these other options as there is a lot of already done stuff and more plug and play with rolling your own pic board or computer controlled a/d and relay setups. have you done much programming or electronics in the past? if not then its going to be quite a bit of learning and arduino probably is the best for a beginner to jump into.

 

if you want to just have a line that has some pause stops at various points (up to 5 and even 10) and also auto reverse, you should look at the miniatronics ru2-1 auto reversing circuit.

 

http://www.miniatronics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=RU2-1&Category_Code=&Product_Count=0

 

this requires no programming and you can just put photo resistor sensors in the track at 2 auto reverse points and 5 pause points (you can up this to 10 with some tricks, see the other thread below). you can put more sensors in (they are like 20 cents each on ebay) and then just have a mechanical plug system to plug in the pause points you want. its a very easy to use all in one system with built in throttle and gives you acceleration and deceleration so its not an on/off like many autoreversers. its a good choice if you are not into programming or a lot of fiddling. pretty minimal wiring just wire pairs to each sensor and a pair to the track.

 

lots more detail here

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/1027-reversing-circuit-miniatronics-ru-2-1/?hl=miniatronics

 

this wont get you crossover stops/collision avoidance or turnout control, but will make a simple loop or point to point seem more alive on its own with nice acc/dec stops and pauses. ive been playing with it on my ttrak streetcar modules.

 

ive also picked up some basic dcc equipment to do what KVP was talking about by using decoders to control the voltage to the tracks (using high amp decoders wired to the tracks). this will allow you to run more than one track loop with a single controller (ie if you have 4 loops you dont need 4 power packs). also with the thought of using some of the dcc sensor/automation in the future potentially.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Guest Closed Account 1]

We're you able to locate any other Unitram topics that dealt with this?

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/5313-single-track-with-auto-reverse/?hl=circuitron&do=findComment&comment=59926

[Vato]

Thanks guy's

 

Now I have two choice, miniatronics or bakatronics :) 

[cteno4]

vatato,

 

couple of small warnings on the bakatronics, ive installed a couple of these for friends on layouts. first it has no acceleration and deceleration, just on/off so your stops are more abrupt. second the sensors have to be manually adjusted to the light level of the room. this means if you adjust it when the room is bright and then run it when the light is dim it will not work and will require readjusting for the dimmer light (some use leds in the area like a street light always on to give very constant light to the sensors.) Not horrible but you just need to be able to access the board to readjust and usually have someone else there to fiddle with the tram as you adjust.

 

also no power supply, so you will need 12-18v ac or dc from a power pack or wall wart to run it (miniatroics comes with a 2amp wall wart)

 

The instructions are pretty good, but there were a few obtuse points in them and i remember one place where something could be read either way but was able to confirm which by other context. not hard to wire up. the ar3 unit works w/o photo sensors but by block detection so you just need to isolate the bits of track with insulated rail jointers (you can have one common wire) at your stop locations. they have some modules you can string together to do some interesting combos, but the instructions are not uber complete on explaining things.

 

one member did have an ar2 that went out after about 6 months of use but i think they ended up sending him a replacement.

 

the miniatronics has an auto adjust for the ambient light levels at the sensors when you power it up. so this means it will function at what ever the light situation is when you start it running. only downside with this is you need to make sure you dont have a car over any of the sensors when you power them up. makes for very little fiddling though!

 

the ru1-1 is an auto reverser for about the same price of the bakatronics. no intermediate stops and ive never played with this one so dont know if it has the acceleration/deceleration of the ru2-1 though.

 

http://www.miniatronics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=RU1-1&Category_Code=&Product_Count=1

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Vato]

vatato,

 

couple of small warnings on the bakatronics, ive installed a couple of these for friends on layouts. first it has no acceleration and deceleration, just on/off so your stops are more abrupt. second the sensors have to be manually adjusted to the light level of the room. this means if you adjust it when the room is bright and then run it when the light is dim it will not work and will require readjusting for the dimmer light (some use leds in the area like a street light always on to give very constant light to the sensors.) Not horrible but you just need to be able to access the board to readjust and usually have someone else there to fiddle with the tram as you adjust.

 

also no power supply, so you will need 12-18v ac or dc from a power pack or wall wart to run it (miniatroics comes with a 2amp wall wart)

 

The instructions are pretty good, but there were a few obtuse points in them and i remember one place where something could be read either way but was able to confirm which by other context. not hard to wire up. the ar3 unit works w/o photo sensors but by block detection so you just need to isolate the bits of track with insulated rail jointers (you can have one common wire) at your stop locations. they have some modules you can string together to do some interesting combos, but the instructions are not uber complete on explaining things.

 

one member did have an ar2 that went out after about 6 months of use but i think they ended up sending him a replacement.

 

the miniatronics has an auto adjust for the ambient light levels at the sensors when you power it up. so this means it will function at what ever the light situation is when you start it running. only downside with this is you need to make sure you dont have a car over any of the sensors when you power them up. makes for very little fiddling though!

 

the ru1-1 is an auto reverser for about the same price of the bakatronics. no intermediate stops and ive never played with this one so dont know if it has the acceleration/deceleration of the ru2-1 though.

 

http://www.miniatronics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=RU1-1&Category_Code=&Product_Count=1

 

cheers

 

jeff

Hi 

I just check the bakatronics site, they have new AAR3 Advanced Auto Reversing Unit, which one use current detect, not a light sensors but no acceleration and deceleration

Edited January 4, 2014 by vatato

[cteno4]

yeah i installed one ar3 on the club layout for a short time a while back when we were playing with a tram line. i think its actually been around for quite a number of years. it was from one of our club member's layout. works well, just need to install track isolation blocks.  ive not had an issue with the ru2-1 with light as it auto adjusts for you. works in the basement here with crappy florescent lights. 

 

this is what i like about the optical sensors is that you can just put them where you want them or move them and not having to go back in and isolate new track sections. sensors are 10 cents or less on ebay so you can even put them all over and then just plug in the ones you want to use at any one time. ive been popping them into ttrak modules as well and then you can just choose which module you want a pause in by plugging that one in.

 

the other thing i like about the ru2-1 is you can wire two sensors in series and double up on pause point to get up to 10 or two sets of reversing points! also if you wire in two sensors in parallel on a circuit you can have it trip when both sensors are covered. this can be useful if you have longer trains you want to run into a platform from both directions and you put both sensors about 15% in from the platform ends and just make sure that the length between the two is shorter than your shortest train you want to use with this and then it will stop the train going both ways pretty close to the center of the platform.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Vato]

Thanks Jeff 

[Vato]

Hi 

where I can buy UR2-1? only at miniatronics site?

[cteno4]

i got mine thru enginetender.com for $85, but it looks like they are not carrying it anymore, but could contact them.

 

google search shows these 

 

http://www.internettrains.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGYA&Store_Code=IT&Category_Code=PDSREV

 

http://www.tonystrains.com/products/mini_other.htm

 

jeff

[Vato]

ok, thanks, I will try tonystrain, because inmodeltrians don't have it in stock