First layout - 'Continuous' Triple Loop

[mageus]

I have a Kato 500 Nozomi starter set (M1 track) with the V11 set (double track oval).  I really wanted the Overhead Transit Station to start with, but couldn't justify the cost of a bunch of turnouts on top of it right now.  So, I came up with this strange idea.

Each track crosses over to a different track, creating a Moebius strip of sorts.  The tightest turn is 11".  This is fine for the 500 since I'm not running it fast.  It's off by ~30mm where the inner loop connects; putting a 62mm straight in the middle of the oval curve makes things just fit, while allowing the inner oval to line up at the station.

Sure, it's not that pretty.  It needs more viaduct since the ground track is just resting on the piers (some custom piers are in order).  But it works and it's kinda fun.  In the future I'll get proper turnouts and a crossover.  I'm thinking of a Yamanote E231 to run as a commuter on the inner track, and keep the Shinkansen on the outer double track.  We'll see.  This suffices for now.

[John P Boogerd]

For those of us who simply want to run trains a lot of switches are not necessary.  The first Japanese layout I saw in a Japanese magazine, and the one that inspired me at the time, had four continuous loops of track and a little bit of other stuff.  It looked great and had only five or six switches on the entire layout.

[mageus]

For those of us who simply want to run trains a lot of switches are not necessary.  The first Japanese layout I saw in a Japanese magazine, and the one that inspired me at the time, had four continuous loops of track and a little bit of other stuff.  It looked great and had only five or six switches on the entire layout.

 

Thanx for the encouragement.

 

I was going to put a crossover on the double track, and 2 turnouts to connect the inner single oval to the double track.  I guess I could get away with 1 turnout, and just back the train up to go the other way.  I also wanted a turnout to connect that 4th straight track to use for train storage.  That's over $100 right there.  Yes, I know, gotta pay to play.  But, everything in stages.

[cteno4]

mageus,

 

great start! thats the way to go start out with some loops and get playing. then you can slowly figure out what you like and dont like and slowly build from there. as you get more trains having sidings is nice to be able to switch out trains fast and have more variety. but like you say go in stages!

 

you can have a lot of fun doing quick scenery as well with simple stuff. just plopping down buildings and even little bits of scenery. you can use colored construction papers or fabric to make ground covers under everything. you can print out streets with a printer and plop them down. lots of ways to have fun cheaply and in little stages like this and just keep fiddling! 

 

some fun ideas for doing small scenery bits for a layout like this here

 

http://japanrailmodelers.org/pages/modelingjapan/tempoary.html

 

cheers

 

jeff

[mageus]

Thanx, Jeff.

 

I have to say, this forum is horrible.  Absolutely evil.  I have spent so much time reading over the past few days.  I really didn't need another hobby.  I'm starting to get ideas, things just pop into my head.  Just shoot me now.

 

I'm thinking a city layout with commuter and Shinkansen loops.  Nothing near proto by any means, just having fun.  Lotsa papercraft ideas for buildings and flooring; cheap and easy.  I stayed in Ochanomizu when I was there, so obviously Tokyo-esque stuff.  Maybe some Akiba signage and stores to mix it up.  A place to keep some High Grade Gundam kits even?  A city in ruins . . .

 

Even if I can't see it coming, the Boss probably can.  How to convince her to add 2 more feet to the table?

 

[cteno4]

LOL, yes the boss rules on stuff like that usually! fun you got sucked into the hobby! japanese train modeling is quite fun as there is sooo much variety in scenes, trains, etc that you can be super creative. they have trains right up against just about anything you can think of so so much flexibility of your play!

 

papercraft is a great way to do stuff cheaply. lots out there free for japanese buildings actually. pm me and i can get you some of them ive collected off sites that are free stuff. there are a few threads here on papercraft stuff. its a great way to get going cheap and then you can always fill in with other stuff later.

 

another idea for down the road is to think of maybe a sectional or modular set up that you can easily set up on the table or a small frame and legs if things can be kept up all the time. if the right size the modules/sections could get stored on shelves. lots of different ways to play. check the jrm website for the layout articles, there is a large spectrum of layouts profiled there to get ideas from.

 

jeff

[Bernard]

Mageus - as the other members have mentioned you have a nice start, there is a lot you can do to develop your layout. Everything is running smoothly and now you can start designing a scene around it.

[Mudkip Orange]

I'm thinking a city layout with commuter and Shinkansen loops.

 

That's a lot of fun. Even if you've just got a little HCD roundy-round, you can do a three-level - Shinkansen on elevated, trams at street level, commuter trains depressed/below grade. Ridiculous quantities of action.

[mageus]

HCD roundy-round?  I presume that's a tram.  Wow, now Unitram?  You guys are making me get spendy!

 

Some questions:

 

- What to use as a base for the layout?

The table is 1/4" ply on a wooden frame, with cross beams for support.  You can see it's actually sitting on top of the slot car table.  Need to use the kid's room for something! (he obviously doesn't mind)

I was thinking 1/4 closed cell foam (like an anti-fatigue mat) for sound insulation.  Harbor Freight has them for cheap.  I was going to print roadway/landscape pictures to stick to Lexan or 1/4" MDF tiles.  Now I'm wondering if I could laminate the photos straight to the foam.

 

- Power supply?

Right now I have a toggle switch splitting the power to 2 different tracks.  With 1 train, I can just power all the tracks all the time.  In the future, if I get another train I'll need at least 2 independent controllers.  The MRC 780 (Tech 7) is convenient since it's 2-in-1, and only a few bucks more than a single controller.  I'm not worried about the PWM; I don't have time to run the trains much, and can keep an eye on the engine temp.

What is the AC 'accessory' outlet used for?  Incandescent bulbs?  LEDs require DC.

 

- Running wiring?

If I use foam I can cut channels to run the wire.  Otherwise I'd drill holes in the plywood and run wiring under the table, but there would be issues where the support beams run under the ply.

Interestingly, my current 'continuous' layout is run off a single feeder.  Guess I'm too much of a newbie to notice the voltage drop in different parts of the line.

[cteno4]

Magneus,

 

you can roll your own tram track by just putting cardboard up to the tracks cut to the shape. you can even do this between the tracks. you can use programs like xtrak cad to print out the track plan and then cut down to fit. tomix also sells some less expensive tram track that has single track with roadway on each side. much cheaper to do a smaller single track tram loop or point to point.

 

our club layout uses 3/16" ply for the top level and 1"x1" frame underneath. works well. its larger expanses that tend to send out the most rumble. bit less noise when track is screwed down it seems. the foam mat would really be quiet if you put it on top. easy to carve tracks in it like you say to run wiring, the stuff is kind of self healing.

 

the dual techs are good units. compact and work well for a layout like this. we just started using them on our club layout. saves a lot of space! the newer pwm does not heat the motors up as much as the old pulse power did. 

 

the ac is usually for old incandescent bulbs and track points. the single coil kato use 12vdc to fire them (by reversing current to reverse the coil field), not ac like the atlas and bachmann dual coil mechs do (firing one coil or the other). there is a simple capacitor circuit that is really easy to do that costs a dollar or so per point to wire up. you can just use simple dpdt switches (dont need momentary) and you can even put on led indicators to indicate the switch position. its called the bcd switch. pm me and i can point you to the chap that will email you the diagrams. super simple.

 

for your leds you can use small battery packs if you dont want to run wires all over or just use simple 12 or 5v wall warts you can get for a couple of bucks. 

 

on cross pieces i always drill a bunch of holes in these to pass wires thru. harder to do once in place but if you use a longer bit you can back the chuck off and drill at a little bit of an angle.

 

for a small table top loop on this you can probably do fine with one or two feeds. with unitrak usually you are good up to 6-8' w/o any noticeable power drop with plain dc. best way is to start with one or two and if you find a drop, check your unijoiners to make sure you dont have a loose one then if still a drop just add another feed. just make sure to not add feeds to your sidings or passing tracks if you are going to use the unitrak power routing feature.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[mageus]

Thanx for the tons of info, Jeff.

 

Couple more questions:

 

- When splitting double track around the tapered island station ends (23-103/4, or 23-105), which curve should I use?

 

Ken's site says to use 481cm (19") curves.  Yet, all the Kato literature says to use 718mm (28") curves.  AnyRail confirms that a 19" curve displaces track the appropriate 33mm.  I know Kato literature has a lot of typos, but I just wanted to make sure.

Also, I know about the V15 set, but wanted to go with the concrete islands, which don't fit V15 properly.

 

- Any source for AnyRail Kato user objects?

I've been making my own objects using whatever diagrams I can find on the web.

 

 

[katoftw]

R481 will make it 33mm offset

R718 will make it 49.5mm offset.

 

depends on how you wanna do it.  if you are wanting to space the tracks 66mm apart to fit a island platform, use 481.

 

if you are using a siding and placing a island platform in the middle, then 718 with a S64 in the middle.

 

but if you are doing the first, buy the varitation set that has the extra concrete straights and single piece doube track platform section.

[mageus]

depends on how you wanna do it.  if you are wanting to space the tracks 66mm apart to fit a island platform, use 481.

if you are using a siding and placing a island platform in the middle, then 718 with a S64 in the middle.

but if you are doing the first, buy the varitation set that has the extra concrete straights and single piece doube track platform section.

 

Yeah, I later figured out that the 718mm curve was for siding.

 

I'm still debating the V15 set.  It's much cheaper to go with concrete islands and just use the curve track.  It will eventually end up in a viaduct station rather than the suburban transit station, so I'm not tied to the (pricey) suburban islands.

[mageus]

Here's my latest idea.

 

Overhead transit station at the front with #6 switches to connect the inner loop and the siding.  The crossover for the double track is hidden in the station.

Elevated station at the back using curved track to split the double track around the islands.  V15 + suburban islands is too pricey and also suboptimum use of space on my smaller layout (4'x6').  Old school concrete platforms fit perfectly.  I'll custom build the elevated station and piers so I can leverage my existing V11 ground track.  There will not be actual 'viaduct', but that's fine for now.  I can always add it in later.

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

Many thanx to the assistance from this forum and Ken's ridiculously awesome web site.

Edited December 18, 2013 by mageus

[katoftw]

platforms are pretty short.  only good for 3 car units.

 

can make the lower 4 plaform station platforms 180mm longer if you flip the station 180 degrees and put a #3 end near the points.

Edited December 18, 2013 by katoftw

[mageus]

platforms are pretty short.  only good for 3 car units.

 

That's what you get when you do a 6' layout and try to throw all those fancy switcheroo thingies in and all.

 

"can make the lower 4 plaform station platforms 180mm longer if you flip the station 180 degrees and put a #3 end near the points."

Except they don't make suburban platform tapered ends.  That's part of the reason I'm going for concrete platforms for the viaduct station - the flexibility.  That's also why the V15 set covers the tapered part to line up with the short 70mm suburban ends; but you lose station length.

[katoftw]

when you say suburban, do you mean modern city? ie with tiles?

[Mudkip Orange]

It's got what it takes.

 

So tell me,

 

why,

 

can't this be love.

 

Straight from the heart.

 

Tell me why,

 

can't this be love.

[mageus]

when you say suburban, do you mean modern city? ie with tiles?

 

Yup.  23-107 - 23-109 (and 23-120).

 

I already have 1 set of 23-120 that I split up and put under the transit station (the ends are open one one side).

 

It's got what it takes...

 

It's Muddy Mudskipper

It's Muddy Mudskipper

It's the Muddy

 

Mud

 

Skipper

 

Show!

[mageus]

Figure 1 is my current layout.  The single inner loop connects to the double outer loop at the lower right.  The double loop has a crossover.

 

I've kinda given up on my DIY viaduct project.  I've decided to buy viaduct curves for the double loop, but want to leverage my old double track.  Figures 2 & 3 are my new ideas.  The front station will be at ground level.  The outer double loop will incline from front to back, and the back station will be elevated. (I'm still going to DIY the entire back elevated section)  The outer loop crossover will be in the back.  The loops connect before the front station (right in figure 2, left in figure 3).  You can see that the tracks need to diverge to fit the transit station.  Using 481mm curves to diverge just after the #6 turnouts saves space.  The difference between figures 2 & 3 is that figure 3 makes the outer loop bigger (taller) and puts the siding on the outside, leaving more space on the inside of the loops for an urban layout.  I can place a crossover for the inner loop in that middle 'sagging' section.

 

I can always buy a cheap train or B Shorty and give the old single loop to my son.

 

The only issues are:

- Possible alignment problems between the #6 turnouts and the double track within the suburban station

- I can't use the 186mm ramped track that comes with the incline pier set.  However, I'm  thinking I can disconnect the ramps and use them under my layout, even though a turnout will be sitting on top of them.

 

 

Any thoughts?