Blue Trains to Hokkaido will be discontinued

[nartak]

An article on Mainichi Shimbun.  Sorry all written in Japanese....
http://mainichi.jp/select/news/20131107k0000m040116000c.html
Below is my poor translation.

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"Blue Trains will be discountinued... with Hokkaido Shinkansen opening"

JR East, Hokkaido and West are coordinating to discoutinuing "Blue Train" or night express coach train upon opening of Hokkaido Shinkansen on end of FY2015 (around March, 2016).

Most of those sleeping coaches are becoming obsolete after 30 years past from their built and low passenger on-board rate due to competition with aircraft and other circumstances.  In addition, Hokkaido Shinkansen for sure will reduce user of those night express trains as well.

According to the source, AKEBONO (Ueno to Aomori) will be discontinued on Mar., 2014.  Followed by HOKUTOSEI on FY2014 end and CASSIOPEIA and TWILIGHT EXPRESS on FY2015 end.  However, HOKUTOSEI will be operated during peak season even after 2015.

This will not impact those electric car type SUNRISE SETO/IZUMO for this time being.

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[miyakoji]

Thanks, I saw this on Ompuchaneru but I didn't read the Japanese article that was linked. Too bad, if the rolling stock is so old, they won't be able to keep any of it, and there will be no possibility of excursion/revival services.

 

The 285s on the sunrise services look good, but they are 15 years old. I wonder if JR will try to retire these (and the service) sooner rather than later.

[miyakoji]

I did not read carefully... this includes the Cassiopeia and Twilight Express? Well, I'm generally surprised at these two for a few reasons. I thought these were luxury trains, intended for different passengers than the blue trains. Also, the Hokkaido shinkansen won't reach Sapporo until several years after Hakodate, right? The Twilight Express cars are old, but the Cassiopeia cars and locos are so new. Does anyone know what the ridership is on these two?

[Guest keio6000]

Only in planet Japan are 15 year old trains "old."

 

I hope the 285s are not retired.  As I understand, the carpet area cars can be used on the Japan Rail Pass.  I had always wanted to take this on one of my trips but haven't managed to yet.

 

Shocked that Cassiopeia will be retired.  I thought this was supposed to be popular.   

 

I kind of suspect that blue trains would be filled to capacity if they offered them as low-priced alternatives to trains by simply increasing density.   Look how Platzkart type trains do it in the ex-ussr and how popular things like Moonlight echigo can be when they are cheap.   At 25000Y or whatever, it's obvious why people don't take them.   At 8000Y such that you wake up in the morning in Sapporo or Nagasaki or heck even Osaka there'd be plenty of takers.

 

What blue trains does this still leave, if any?   The reality is that blue trains are admired externally.. the onboard experience elicits little nostalgia.

[miyakoji]

Here's the English article: http://mainichi.jp/english/english/newsselect/news/20131107p2a00m0na014000c.html

[westfalen]

What blue trains does this still leave, if any?

In a word, none.

[Densha]

Wait what? I saw the end of the Akebono and Hokutosei coming but definitely not the Twilight Express, not even mentioning the Cassiopeia. :S

[westfalen]

In a word, none.

Or is it? I had a bit of a think after I posted this.

 

Was the Hamanasu mentioned?  Will it continue after the Shinkansen takes over the tunnel, maybe cut back to a Hakodate - Sapporo run, or will it be gone as well and just missed getting mentioned in the press release because it's only an Express, not a Limited Express and usually gets forgotten in the shadow of the more glamorous trains.

 

If it goes there will be no regular timetabled locomotive hauled passenger trains in Japan.

[miyakoji]

It's not mentioned in either version of the article. Whether or not it meets the same fate may depend on the actual motivation for discontinuing the other services.

 

I'm still surprised most about the Cassiopeia. Thinking more about the Twilight Express, I'm a little less surprised. If JR West wanted to run that for many years to come, there would have been some news in the last few years about new equipment. Of course, there hasn't been.

[Densha]

But doesn't this actually mean there will be no 1067mm passenger trains passing through the Seikan Tunnel after the Shinkansen starts operating? That could be a very logical reason for the scrapping of all services. So far I know it's still unknown how they want they want to handle freight traffic though,

[Sacto1985]

But doesn't this actually mean there will be no 1067mm passenger trains passing through the Seikan Tunnel after the Shinkansen starts operating? That could be a very logical reason for the scrapping of all services. So far I know it's still unknown how they want they want to handle freight traffic though,

 

Yep, that pretty much ends the Hakuchō/Super Hakuchō services through the Seikan Tunnel, too. Passengers will have to ride the Hokkaido Shinkansen service between Shin-Aomori and Shin-Hakodate stations instead.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Sacto1985

[bikkuri bahn]

I think it's safe to assume that the Hamanasu will be axed along with the others.  The railways want to drop the traditional overnight sleeper trains like a hot potato as the market has fallen out and the costs of maintenance and staffing have risen.  I also read in another article that the railways don't want to bother with the expense of acquiring dual voltage 1067mm locomotives for passenger trains once the Seikan tunnel is energized at 25kv AC.

 

That said, I think I'll book a sleeper berth Ueno-Aomori on the Akebono this winter.  IMO, the Akebono is the last true workaday (as opposed to cruise train) ltd. express blue train left. 

[Guest keio6000]

"Shinkansen or nothing" seems to be the pricing strategy of a monopolist.

 

Meanwhile, Japan has extraordinary night capacity in its rail system that goes almost completely unused and there is no good way to get to Sapporo (or Shinhakodate) for a morning meeting without flying.

 

I do not understand this chart:

 

 

 

It seems to suggest that the shinkansen will operate to sapporo in 2020 - but it will not.

[miyakoji]

Well, one thing in defense of not using the tracks at night: maintenance is carried out. Japan's trains stay on the tracks

[bnicolas1987]

What a pity...

 

That will say I won't be able to take an overnight service in Japan...

 

Or I have to rush before end 2015 for the Cassiopeia and Twilight Express...

[bikkuri bahn]

there is no good way to get to Sapporo (or Shinhakodate) for a morning meeting without flying.

Most companies nowadays don't pay for hotel stays (or sleeper berths)- they send you out to the hinterlands on an AM flight, and get you back on a late evening flight same day (higaeri).

[Densha]

"Shinkansen or nothing" seems to be the pricing strategy of a monopolist.

Where do I recognize that strategy from, wasn't it the Dutch railways?? They introduced hst's but there were many people not having enough budget to pay for the expensive ticket so they were pushed into a local when the intercity was abolished. (That apart from the story of the failing V250 trains after a few weeks.) Now they realized the made the wrong choice after all.

I do not understand this chart:

 

It seems to suggest that the shinkansen will operate to sapporo in 2020 - but it will not.

I can only assume that it is an outdated chart.

[ToniBabelony]

Where do I recognize that strategy from, wasn't it the Dutch railways?? They introduced hst's but there were many people not having enough budget to pay for the expensive ticket so they were pushed into a local when the intercity was abolished. (That apart from the story of the failing V250 trains after a few weeks.) Now they realized the made the wrong choice after all.

 

The thing is that there is also the option of highway buses and airplanes here. Well, airplanes being a tad more expensive and almost as fast as a Shinkansen, highway buses are 30% cheaper but take three times longer (calculating from Ueno to Akita). If you like traveling by train: go for hardcore mode.

[nartak]

For budget travellers, we also have ferry.  We can take it from Oarai of Ibaraki-ken to Tomakomai, Hokkaido.

It is roughly about 20 hours travel but the fare is the cheapest.  So passenger will be have more option to travel to Hokkaido.... Normal Airline (ANA, JAL), LCCs, Shinkansen, and Ferry....

 

Anyway, if Shinkansen comes, JR tends to dump everything else which we saw at everywhere.  Of course it is company's objective to pursue maximum profitability in the world of capitalism.  Everyone wants speed but things moving so fast and we are missing or losing things as a trade-off....

[westfalen]

I think it's safe to assume that the Hamanasu will be axed along with the others.  The railways want to drop the traditional overnight sleeper trains like a hot potato as the market has fallen out and the costs of maintenance and staffing have risen.  I also read in another article that the railways don't want to bother with the expense of acquiring dual voltage 1067mm locomotives for passenger trains once the Seikan tunnel is energized at 25kv AC.

 

That said, I think I'll book a sleeper berth Ueno-Aomori on the Akebono this winter.  IMO, the Akebono is the last true workaday (as opposed to cruise train) ltd. express blue train left. 

My friends and I tried to get on the Akebono last December for that very reason, but it was booked out and we ended up going for a trip to Hakodate on the Hokutosei instead which turns out was just as good seeing it is now going to be discontinued as well. We are going to try for the Sunrise Express this year which makes me wonder how long it will be before they are considered old by Japanese standards and go the same way as the blue trains.

 

Looks like JR Freight will get some more EF510s.

[miyakoji]

Yeah I was thinking that too. Maybe JRE will keep a few, there have got to be some EF81s that can scrapped.

Edited November 8, 2013 by miyakoji

[yakumo381]

Scrapping of redundant locomotives already underway - see this blog for EF81 104 that was a regular Blue Train hauler especially Twilight Express.

 

http://blog.goo.ne.jp/t-e-n-3/e/02d4b0a9d535093b6cac84cc22338764

[Guest ___]

What will happen to the (super) Hakucho equipment? Retirmenet, or repainted, refurbed and placed on other services?

[Densha]

If I have to believe wikipedia the Hakucho 485's are already 37 years old now. I assume the newer stock will be reused however.

[Sacto1985]

The 485 Series EMU's will either head for the scrapper or used as spare parts for the various Joyful Train tourist trainsets running throughout Japan. The 785 and 789 EMU's might be re-assigned to limited express duties in the Tohoku region, for example, the trains between Niigata, Yamagata, Akita and Aomori.