Maglev train plan outlined by JR Tokai

[cteno4]

interesting not heard before that 80% will be underground on the first section!

 

jeff

 

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/09/18/business/maglev-train-plan-outlined-by-jr-tokai/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=maglev-train-plan-outlined-by-jr-tokai#.UjoA2uBAd9k

[Densha]

Also interesting how they write "conventional shinkansen" while we usually use the word "conventional" when comparing the "conventional railway system" to Shinkansen. Is the shinkansen already outdated? ;)

Edited September 18, 2013 by Densha

[cteno4]

for the japanese high speed trains are conventional!

 

jeff

[cteno4]

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/09/19/business/jr-tokai-eyes-maglev-trains-abroad-if-political-traps-at-home-can-be-dodged/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=jr-tokai-eyes-maglev-trains-abroad-if-political-traps-at-home-can-be-dodged#.UjtQtOBAd9k

[Mudkip Orange]

I wonder what sort of token services the small cities will have... every 3 hours?

[Guest keio6000]

I wonder what sort of token services the small cities will have... every 3 hours?

 

i plan on using the maglev to get from shinagawa to tam tam kobuchi faster via sagamihara station, so i hope not!

 

 

more realistically, you have to wonder what the point of this maglev idea really is.  to enable same day return business trips to nagoya and osaka?  this is already possible, easily.   to make it slightly more convenient to do so?   sure, ok, i guess.   to make rail more competitive with air for journeys beyond osaka?  seems hardly worth the trouble.  if you're going to build a new right of way through western tokyo, a new commuter line would be more reasonable.

Edited September 20, 2013 by keio6000

[cteno4]

sounding like tunneling is going to be the solution for right of ways with the maglev. i was surprised by the 80% tunnel on the first section. things want to be so straight probably impossible to retro fit w/o it its sounding like along with elevation changes.

 

As much as i love the idea of super fast mag lev trains i also wonder if it will be worth the costs, but i guess they think so.

 

wonder what the energy efficiency and cost of upkeep/maintenance will be compared to standard rail shinkansens.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Densha]

As the article stated, I do also wonder how many people will actually make use of the service considering the population decline in Japan. Now of course this is a very slow process, but it still means that not more capacity is needed. Or am I missing out on something important?

[Mudkip Orange]

I think it's more the idea that the Tokaido Shinkansen is completely maxed out on capacity. So you can keep raising the prices to match demand with supply or you can add capacity on the busiest segment and then Maglev becomes your "premium" and maybe you run more Kodama trains.

 

Really I imagine it's the same as highway projects in the US, every time you propose new/expanded freeway someone says something to the effect of "we already have enough freeways, you don't need it"... but the traffic always comes. For many years the Katy Freeway in Houston had plateaued at about 190,000-200,000 cars per day, they widened it from six lanes to fourteen (10 free + 4 variable toll), now in a few years traffic is at 275,000 and still climbing.

 

The other thing about Japan's "declining population" is that it's all happening in the small cities and rural areas, the megacities are still growing. Tokyo has added over a million people in the last 10 years, which is a faster growth rate than New York. Osaka prefecture has been flat for awhile but Osaka City has actually turned around in the last 10 years and is now growing a bit. Maglev is very much about connecting the core areas (which will continue to grow) while getting through the rural and outer suburban areas (which will continue to shrink) as fast as humanly possible. I don't have stats on Nagoya but I imagine it can't hurt the city's competetiveness if you can get from Tokyo to Nagoya faster than you can get to Chiba or Narita.

[ToniBabelony]

Hmmm... Looks like the Sagamihara station is going to be on the other end of town in Hashimoto. Ah well...

[Guest keio6000]

As much as i love the idea of super fast mag lev trains i also wonder if it will be worth the costs, but i guess they think so.

 

In Japan, land of the construction-industrial complex (think: similar political clout to the military-industrial complex in the USA), "worth the costs" is not always the true determining factor as to whether something will be built.  Witness the ridiculously over-engineered japanese landscape, where no river is safe from needless concretization of its banks.  And then there's the other side of the coin:  politicians.  Joetsu shinkansen anyone?

[The Next Station Is...]

Another factor in Japan's race to maglev could be developing the technology so that they can export it in a few decades time, much like how they are exporting current technology - I wouldn't be surprised given how many projects I see Hitachi's name against in the UK.

[Guest keio6000]

Another factor in Japan's race to maglev could be developing the technology so that they can export it in a few decades time, much like how they are exporting current technology - I wouldn't be surprised given how many projects I see Hitachi's name against in the UK.

 

Where else on earth do you see fast maglev a possibility in the next 50 years?   About the only place I can think of is HK->Taipei->Shanghai->Beijing - but this would of course require considerable political changes (the same sort of political changes that would fuel such an ambitious project).  And if it happens, its hard to see how the project could be Japanese.

 

London-Paris would in theory make some sense, but the beancounters are too sensible for it to ever really happen.

 

Boston-Nyc-Philly-DC would also make sense, but the US has both "not invented here" syndrome and is politically incapable of such projects anyway.

 

Moscow-St Petersburg I guess could be a possibility if oil spikes again and putin wants to build another vanity project.

 

if they find oil in vietnam, HCMC-Hanoi would be an intriguing but let's face it unlikely route.

 

Maybe tokyo to Seoul via whatever route, but this would of course be only many many decades down the line after the maglev is extended closer to hakata.

 

Shorter distance, maybe hong-kong to macau?  Hardly seems worth it, but if it were an airport connection to HKIA, who knows.

[Densha]

I don't really see the maglev going beyong Osaka. Tokyo - Osaka is the busiest Shinkansen route after all and I've never read about the Sanyo Shinkansen having that much traffic as the Tokaido Shinkansen does.

[westfalen]

I don't really see the maglev going beyong Osaka. Tokyo - Osaka is the busiest Shinkansen route after all and I've never read about the Sanyo Shinkansen having that much traffic as the Tokaido Shinkansen does.

I can't see it in my lifetime either, these things are usually proposed and planned many years in advance and I can't say I've read anything about extending it further west.

 

As for the technology being sold overseas I'm sure they have already ruled out Australia, by the time we finish our feasibility studies on a standard shinkansen style high speed railway teleporting from one city to another will be commonplace technology.

[bikkuri bahn]

As for the technology being sold overseas I'm sure they have already ruled out Australia, by the time we finish our feasibility studies on a standard shinkansen style high speed railway teleporting from one city to another will be commonplace technology.

That reminds me of the "concerned citizens" (really ideology-driven anti-rail transit road warriors) in the U.S. who always say studies about HSR routes are a waste, because railways are "19th century technology".  I really wouldn't be surprised if they proposed teleportation as the next step above their pod vacuum transit ideas they are so fond of

[Densha]

In Tokyo they already have a Teleport station. ;)

Edited September 26, 2013 by Densha

[cteno4]

ok beam me up scotty... sorry just love saying that, too much of a trekkie at heart.

 

jeff

[Sacto1985]

I see the Chūō Shinkansen primarily as Tokyo to Osaka only, which will supplement the traffic already on the Tokaidō Shinkansen line. After all, when the first Shinkansen line was built, it specifically was to connect between Tokyo and Osaka (which achieved a transit time of 3 house 10 minutes by middle 1965).

[cteno4]

interesting one of the original maglev engineers reflects on its development.

 

jeff

 

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/09/27/national/maglev-veteran-keeps-looking-toward-the-future/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=maglev-veteran-keeps-looking-toward-the-future#.UkXlXuBAd9k

[cteno4]

more on tech and profitability

 

jeff

 

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/09/30/reference/maglev-challenge-both-technical-financial/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=maglev-challenge-both-technical-financial#.UknRzeBAd9k

[Ochanomizu]

Some of the facts have me wondering why such a train would have windows at all.  For example: The trip to Osaka will take 67 minutes and 86% of the travel will be in tunnels.  That leaves 9 minutes and 23 seconds of viewing time. 

 

Those of you who have travelled the Chuotosen on the Azusa or Super Azusa would know that sometimes the gap between some of those tunnels is so short that you don't have time to focus on the scenery before entering the next tunnel.  I am never bothered about requesting a window seat on such a service.

 

Travelling at 500km/h through mountainous terrain will just be a blur.  A "Driver's View" cam and in-car video monitor might have been a better solution.

[Densha]

I think that's mainly because people will feel more at ease with windows. I would probably get claustrophobic if there were no windows honestly. And while I'm not sure about how it works with the maglev; with normal trains you can break through windows with a hammer when there has been an accident or something.

[Mudkip Orange]

I'd be blown away if the Japanese didn't have some sort of safety standard for breakaway railway windows, considering how many people died from being trapped inside burning 63 series...

[westfalen]

I think that's mainly because people will feel more at ease with windows. I would probably get claustrophobic if there were no windows honestly. And while I'm not sure about how it works with the maglev; with normal trains you can break through windows with a hammer when there has been an accident or something.

The early London underground trains didn't have windows because management thought there was nothing to see but passengers complained about the claustrophobic feeling of being cooped up in a metal can underground.  I think it would be like spending a hour in an elevator.