Tomix and DCC

[chadbag]

On 8/4/2024 at 1:19 AM, Wolf said:

 

Completely OffTopic but yes, I have a few NGDCC boards on the shop, but only the common Kato replacement boards for locos and the Tomix cleaning car one. NGDCC is cool with me selling them but does not want to deal with international shipping or any special discount so I order via Third Party, so honestly people will always get then cheaper if someone buys directly at their place. Still, many customers gladly take them as a "side item" on an existing order, or even ask "put the one that fits the loco I purchased in the package". 

 

Is that new?  At least as a retail customer they happily shipped to me here in the US a few years ago.  My second order with them I had shipped to my SisIL in Kobe and I picked it up when we went to visit.

 

Edited August 5, 2024 by chadbag

[Wolf]

11 hours ago, chadbag said:

Is that new?

I dont know. Maybe an EU thing. I remember it always was a PITA to deal with them even when I was still just retail. I always had to ask RG-R for assistance.

[MrLinderman]

Probably a stupid question but can't really find an answer anywhere, I'm about to start doing DCC for my testing layout.

 

Do I need to make any modifications to the Tomix turnouts to be suitable for DCC operation? 

 

As far as I can tell the frogs are isolated and there is a jumper from the blade to the main track which passes current when using DC

 

Is this correct? - If so I believe I wont need to make any isolations as the frog will keep the system from shorting?

[Madsing]

Correct. The Tomix turnouts will work with DCC without requiring any modification.

Pay attention that they route power, i.e. only the track in the direction selected by the turnout is connected to the other side. This is usually not required/desirable when using DCC and I would recommend attaching power feeders to all three sides of the turnout.

 

Marc

 

[MrLinderman]

9 hours ago, Madsing said:

Correct. The Tomix turnouts will work with DCC without requiring any modification.

Pay attention that they route power, i.e. only the track in the direction selected by the turnout is connected to the other side. This is usually not required/desirable when using DCC and I would recommend attaching power feeders to all three sides of the turnout.

 

Marc

 

 

Thanks Marc for confirming.

 

Affirm on wiring, will be wiring the DCC final layout so all sections post and pre a turnout are wired into the dcc output. 

 

Is it recommended then to remove the power routing capability for the final layout?

 

For the test layout I may forgo some wiring for convenience noting I will need to ensure switches are in the correct position before trying to power an engine. 

 

Only area I may not wire in the final is the group of multiple turnouts prior to or in transit to a yard, with the principle being that the yard storage tracks, any sidings will be each individually wired to the dcc and the main lines, with the intention that correct switching would take place prior to any movements across this "zone" of unwired switches.

Edited Monday at 09:38 PM by MrLinderman

[Madsing]

Good questions. 
On my layout (I mean, the parts where the tracks are glued and ballasted), I have soldered power wires to each segment of tracks and I have removed the power routing function from all turnouts. I don’t necessarily recommend everyone to do that…I am usually over cautious.

With older Tomix turnouts, this can be done by soldering short wires directly on the PCB of the turnout. 
With newer turnouts (the SY Synthetic Sleeper type), this is a bit more difficult. That PCB has been redesigned and, if I remember correctly, these wires have to be placed under the turnout. I can check again and provide more details if you want. 
I don’t fully understand your last paragraph. I think it’s important to have all sidings always powered so that the interior lights and head lights of the trains can be on, even if the trains are not running. 
Marc

[chadbag]

10 minutes ago, Madsing said:

I think it’s important to have all sidings always powered so that the interior lights and head lights of the trains can be on, even if the trains are not running. 

I mean that’s why we use DCC.  To remove operation of the train from the powering of the layout.  

[MrLinderman]

7 minutes ago, Madsing said:

Good questions. 
On my layout (I mean, the parts where the tracks are glued and ballasted), I have soldered power wires to each segment of tracks and I have removed the power routing function from all turnouts. I don’t necessarily recommend everyone to do that…I am usually over cautious.

With older Tomix turnouts, this can be done by soldering short wires directly on the PCB of the turnout. 
With newer turnouts (the SY Synthetic Sleeper type), this is a bit more difficult. That PCB has been redesigned and, if I remember correctly, these wires have to be placed under the turnout. I can check again and provide more details if you want. 
I don’t fully understand your last paragraph. I think it’s important to have all sidings always powered so that the interior lights and head lights of the trains can be on, even if the trains are not running. 
Marc

 

Hard to explain what I mean in words, but imagine you had an arrangement of switches one after each other or only separated by a single piece, lets take the Tomix rail yard as an example, with the far left switch being connected to the mainline.

 

I would 100% connect at the dots I placed in "blue" to the dcc output, but the dots I placed in "red" I would consider not doing as the concept would be that no train should be stopping in those areas and all switching should be correctly orientated before they transit between each blue dot.

 

[chadbag]

2 hours ago, MrLinderman said:

 

Hard to explain what I mean in words, but imagine you had an arrangement of switches one after each other or only separated by a single piece, lets take the Tomix rail yard as an example, with the far left switch being connected to the mainline.

 

I would 100% connect at the dots I placed in "blue" to the dcc output, but the dots I placed in "red" I would consider not doing as the concept would be that no train should be stopping in those areas and all switching should be correctly orientated before they transit between each blue dot.

 

 

Am I not understanding?  How do they get through the red sections?  DCC is both a power source and a command channel over that power.

 

[MrLinderman]

4 hours ago, chadbag said:

 

Am I not understanding?  How do they get through the red sections?  DCC is both a power source and a command channel over that power.

 

 

That's based on leaving the switches with power routing enabled as standard on the new Tomix switches.

[Madsing]

Yes, it's not easy to explain with words 😀

 

The Tomix rail yard is a good example. Note that power routing works in both directions. From the mainline to the sidings, and also from the sidings to the mainline. So, five power feeders at the five blue dots on the right will be enough to power all parts of that yard, including all red dots. Power will always come from at least one of the blue dots. That's what I would do on a temporary DCC layout (where tracks are not glued and ballasted). 

On a permanent layout, I would also provide power to the two red dots that are easily accessible (for safety).

Removing the power routing function is yet an additional protection step, to safeguard against a possible malfunction of the power routing of the switch, in case it gets dirty over time.

 

Marc

[inobu]

1 hour ago, MrLinderman said:

 

That's based on leaving the switches with power routing enabled as standard on the new Tomix switches.

MrLinderman,

 

I always wire for the future no matter what. Your best bet is to wire in blocks and daisy chain them below the layout.

Power Routing is faster in terms of getting to run trains in a short amount of time. Wiring in blocks will pay off in the future

as you get more into DCC. I use Lok Decoders with RailCom and have a similar yard. I blocked off the wash station and know

which Unit is at the Wash station. The Wash station is its own block.

 

 

 

If you choose to do some automation you will be able to make the separation at the terminals below.

As Railcom (2-way Decoder Communication) grows more and more features will be added. 

You can be ready for it.

 

With the Software available your need to have blocks or stations to route trains to. 

 

Inobu

[MrLinderman]

8 hours ago, inobu said:

MrLinderman,

 

I always wire for the future no matter what. Your best bet is to wire in blocks and daisy chain them below the layout.

Power Routing is faster in terms of getting to run trains in a short amount of time. Wiring in blocks will pay off in the future

as you get more into DCC. I use Lok Decoders with RailCom and have a similar yard. I blocked off the wash station and know

which Unit is at the Wash station. The Wash station is its own block.

 

 

 

If you choose to do some automation you will be able to make the separation at the terminals below.

As Railcom (2-way Decoder Communication) grows more and more features will be added. 

You can be ready for it.

 

With the Software available your need to have blocks or stations to route trains to. 

 

Inobu

 

Hi Inobu, Yes for my main layout, blocks will be done, I may not be physically wiring it all in blocks though as I'm looking at doing a combination of block wiring and Time of Flight sensors to assign digital blocks and markers around the layout, as i intend to highly automate the final layout using ex-rail. I am also looking at adding sensor cam to the overall system for the station to assign and note which platform numbers are currently in use.

 

For my testing layout I wont be doing any sort of block wiring as its only there to test certain EX-Rail coding etc.

 

I'm assuming your using current detection to note if there is something inside your isolated block?

 

But back a little, this question I had was mainly around the "need" or "no need" to place power connections at the specific red dots noted in the diagram, this was on the back of the comment made that all sides of a turnout (switch) should be powered for DCC, in this rail yard example if my turnouts are "power routing" then there should be no need to add dcc input lines to those red dot areas as the blue dots covers all the "parking" areas and when switched correctly the power will flow as required through this switch "zone"

 

@Madsing Thank you for confirming, I believed that was the case, for the final layout I may opt to either remove power routing or wire each and every possible direction, This may be even more important in some areas of my yard design as it incorporates a few 3-way turnouts which I could see being the most vulnerable to failure, I will need to do some tests before I commit to a way forward on the final layout.