Kato-Lemke BR 189 "Night city line" dcc problems

[Vato]

just received KATO-Lemke BR 189 Loco, trying to install dcc decoder (Digitrax). after installation, loco start moving, but cannot stops, (install two different decoders) same problem (decoder responds, light come in and out, directions works) 

[KenS]

Is it moving fast or slow?  And what kind of decoder connection (8-pin, lightboard replacement, etc)?

 

I'd suspect there's some kind of wiring problem if it's happening with multiple decoders. Any chance you could have installed the decoder backwards or offset to one side (missed some pins)?

 

It could also be that you have multiple throttles (or a throttle and a computer) set to the same address and one isn't zero'd.  Try resetting the decoder (set CV8 to 8) and then setting the address to something other than what you were using.

 

Another thought: have you used this throttle with another train successfully?  I once bought a Digitrax throttle and the knob wouldn't actually go to zero, so any train programmed to its address would at least crawl.  I swapped it at the store for another one that worked fine once I realized what was broken.

Edited July 27, 2013 by KenS

[Vato]

Is it moving fast or slow?  And what kind of decoder connection (8-pin, lightboard replacement, etc)?

 

I'd suspect there's some kind of wiring problem if it's happening with multiple decoders. Any chance you could have installed the decoder backwards or offset to one side (missed some pins)?

 

It could also be that you have multiple throttles (or a throttle and a computer) set to the same address and one isn't zero'd.  Try resetting the decoder (set CV8 to 8) and then setting the address to something other than what you were using.

 

Another thought: have you used this throttle with another train successfully?  I once bought a Digitrax throttle and the knob wouldn't actually go to zero, so any train programmed to its address would at least crawl.  I swapped it at the store for another one that worked fine once I realized what was broken.

Thanks for answer

Decoder is 6 pin NEM651 interface

Throttle <MRC> work fine with other locos, I try four or five, decoder installed properly, and work (decoder) fine with other locos. I install three different  decoders with same result. loco start moving, and then do not respond 

 

in DC version loco works fine 

Edited July 27, 2013 by vatato

[E6系]

Hello Mr vatato,

 

This is a known problem with Digitrax DZ125 type decoders.  It sometimes occur when the decoder is configured to work in DC as well as DCC.  To be sure this is not the case, please set CV29 to 34 and test again.

 

Also, please configure the decoder to another address.  Especially not 03.

Edited July 28, 2013 by E6系

[Vato]

Hello Mr vatato,

 

This is a known problem with Digitrax DZ125 type decoders.  It sometimes occur when the decoder is configured to work in DC as well as DCC.  To be sure this is not the case, please set CV29 to 34 and test again.

 

Also, please configure the decoder to another address.  Especially not 03.

Thanks will try today

[KenS]

E6系 do you have more info on the cause or explanation of the DZ125 problem?  I've seen something similar on a DZ125, but it only happened after I'd been programming it for a time, and cleared up when I unplugged my Zephyr and plugged it back in, so I assumed it was a command station problem rather than a decoder issue. My Zephyr is really old, bought in the first year or two they were out, so I'm not surprised when it misbehaves.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Vatato: Are all the pins plugged in? Just one misplaced and you won't have directional control.

 

Ken: Is your Zephyr up to date?  They have a 2013 update for it. It'll kill track power when it senses an issue.

 

Also, try a reset now and then.

[KenS]

No, my Zephyr (the DCS50, not the DCS51 Zephyr Xtra) hasn't been updated since I bought it. It has version 10 code, not the apparently older/original v11 that had problems (their version numbering is wonky).  I don't think the DCS50 has user-upgradeable firmware (there isn't anything in the manual and no updates in their download section for it), and while I've heard that there was a c. 2008 v12 that had problems and a c. 2011 software change (version unknown), there's nothing on their site about any upgrading/updating for the DCS50, so it may not be factory-upgradeable either.

 

And when I sent my DT400 in for factory upgrading, it took them three months, so I'm not in a hurry to lose my Zephyr for that long.

 

There's a 2013 DCS51 update (R4) for track shutdowns on shorts, but it doesn't look like it would apply to the DCS50.

 

Are you aware of DCS50 updates, and can they be user-applied?

 

I always reset decoders before programming them.  I don't think I've ever reset the DCS50, and that's probably a good idea.

[Vato]

Vatato: Are all the pins plugged in? Just one misplaced and you won't have directional control.

 

Ken: Is your Zephyr up to date?  They have a 2013 update for it. It'll kill track power when it senses an issue.

 

Also, try a reset now and then.

u kidding me? of course  all pins plugged,, problem is, after acceleration i can't control loco, before acceleration eveything works, I mean light, direction, but when loco starts, I canno control nothing, I try two different decoders, same problem, on the different locos decoders work fine

[Vato]

Hello Mr vatato,

 

This is a known problem with Digitrax DZ125 type decoders.  It sometimes occur when the decoder is configured to work in DC as well as DCC.  To be sure this is not the case, please set CV29 to 34 and test again.

 

Also, please configure the decoder to another address.  Especially not 03.

I try to cv29 to 34, after reseting the decoder, same problem, I will return loco 

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Ken: One would use JRMI to update the Digitrax controllers and boosters. All computer platforms.

 

Vavato:

 

According to the wiring diagram, installing the decoder the wrong way would result in weird results. The colors and function are mirrored so if the decoder was flipped you would get juice to the motor. The decoder might not like it for long though. Find the wire colors and double check.

 

We've all be here. We still blow decoders trying to be the first kid on the block to digitize a certain loco.

 

http://www.digitrax.com/tsd/KB155/dz125in-wiring-diagram/

 

Digitrax tech results:

http://www.digitrax.com/tsd/search/?q=nem%20651

 

http://www.digitrax.com/static/apps/cms/media/documents/documentation/decodermanual.pdf

 

I'm leaning towards faulty decoders at this time. Loco is fine you said.

[Vato]

Ken: One would use JRMI to update the Digitrax controllers and boosters. All computer platforms.

 

Vavato:

 

According to the wiring diagram, installing the decoder the wrong way would result in weird results. The colors and function are mirrored so if the decoder was flipped you would get juice to the motor. The decoder might not like it for long though. Find the wire colors and double check.

 

We've all be here. We still blow decoders trying to be the first kid on the block to digitize a certain loco.

 

http://www.digitrax.com/tsd/KB155/dz125in-wiring-diagram/

 

Digitrax tech results:

http://www.digitrax.com/tsd/search/?q=nem%20651

 

http://www.digitrax.com/static/apps/cms/media/documents/documentation/decodermanual.pdf

 

I'm leaning towards faulty decoders at this time. Loco is fine you said.

Hi Webskipper

Loco is fine with DC, decoder is fine with other locos, but with this one, not... and I try to install different decoder, but result is same

 

and decoder do not have any wires, only pins

Edited July 29, 2013 by vatato

[KenS]

Ken: One would use JRMI to update the Digitrax controllers and boosters. All computer platforms.

 

Well yes, you can use JMRI (or a number of other things) IF there's a .dmf file from Digitrax for the update. But for the DCS50 they don't appear to make these available.

 

I think we've diverged enough from the original topic of this thread, so let's leave it there.

[E6系]

E6系 do you have more info on the cause or explanation of the DZ125 problem?  I've seen something similar on a DZ125, but it only happened after I'd been programming it for a time, and cleared up when I unplugged my Zephyr and plugged it back in, so I assumed it was a command station problem rather than a decoder issue. My Zephyr is really old, bought in the first year or two they were out, so I'm not surprised when it misbehaves.

 

Hello Mr KenS,

 

I will try to find document and send link.

 

I know of problem but only when decoder is activated for DC use.  Also, I heard about another problem if controller is set to same address as decoder.  But I do not understand clearly how this make problem.

 

I will report back soon.

[E6系]

Hello Mr vatato,

 

Yes. From your description it now sounds like faulty board on your model.  I think return to supplier for testing is good idea.

[Martijn Meerts]

Sounds to me like the NEM651 socket might just be busted, or there's an error in the board that only shows up when a decoder is installed, but in that case there should be more complaints ..

 

I have had NEM651 sockets misbehave, including times where I'd lose all control of the loco. In my cases that was usually a bad socket (1 pin had a bad contact, and motor vibrations cause it to lose contact once in a while). It got to a point where I generally remove the socket and just solder in the decoder. I've just had far too many issues with NEM651 sockets ..

 

Especially bad are those where you basically have 6 solder pads and a sort of bracket on top of that. The bracket it supposed to push the decoder pins to the solder pads, but the connection can be terrible. The bracket is often not fastened well at all either.

[Vato]

Sounds to me like the NEM651 socket might just be busted, or there's an error in the board that only shows up when a decoder is installed, but in that case there should be more complaints ..

 

I have had NEM651 sockets misbehave, including times where I'd lose all control of the loco. In my cases that was usually a bad socket (1 pin had a bad contact, and motor vibrations cause it to lose contact once in a while). It got to a point where I generally remove the socket and just solder in the decoder. I've just had far too many issues with NEM651 sockets ..

 

Especially bad are those where you basically have 6 solder pads and a sort of bracket on top of that. The bracket it supposed to push the decoder pins to the solder pads, but the connection can be terrible. The bracket is often not fastened well at all either.

this is my first problem with NEM651, I have many european locos with NEM651 and last two years I have no problem with

[Martijn Meerts]

Might be I just got really unlucky with the sockets... Still, might be worth checking the socket itself, and see if the connection between decoder and socket is solid. I know some decoders have really flimsy pins on them, which some sockets don't like much.

[cteno4]

tech support 101 always reseat connectors! its amazing how many times that a bad connection like this has caused issues in my work with lots of gear in exhibits! looks fine, but just the right tweak and its just off enough to cause those odd issues!

 

jeff

[Spaceman Spiff]

Votato, sorry for joining the thread late. Have you been able to correct your issue? I had a Fleishmann loco have simuliar issues with a dz125. It would just go forward. After the standard testing and cursing I put in either an ESU or TSC NEM decoder and the loco ran fine. The original dz125 went into another loco and it worked fine. It might just be something that the Digitrax doesn't play nice with some loco's. That being said I have purchased numerous DZ125's and I'm finding them to have higher failure rates. I'm going to start buying the TCS NEM decoders (usually only a couple dollars more)or the pricier ESU ones.

 

 

 

 

Spiff

Edited September 4, 2013 by Spaceman Spiff